Ep. 32: Ciolim & Climate

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For full disclosure. The views and
opinions expressed on this podcast are those of

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the guests and the host. Content
here is for informational purposes only. Here

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we are, I'm here with Tunisia, and we're actually sitting on top of

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a mountain in Tucson, looking down
looking south towards Santavier, and we're gonna

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just talk a little bit about JAREDI. We want to talk a little bit

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about climate. So you know,
with this episode calling it Jaredim and climate,

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how are we dealing with climate in
today's world? But at the same

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time, what about our wild foods? How are they dealing with it now?

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Is it a concern? The things
that we need to be thinking about.

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But first, I want to go
ahead and just let Tunisia kind of

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take over right now, because she
just finished up a season of harvesting the

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Jardim, the Choya buds. Let's
welcome to Nisha, back on another episode

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right here as an artist at ward. Hello everyone, and thank you for

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joining us. Yes, we just
finished up our Jeodim harvest. And I've

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probably been doing this for gosh,
since I was younger, since I was

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little, Maybe not as much when
I was younger, but definitely more as

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I got older. My mom harvested
quite a bit, so did my grandma

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Wanna, my great great aunt,
Juanita Hill, and you know, seeing

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them harvest, I've had the taste
of chiodim growing up, and after having

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it during many meals, learned how
to harvest it and how to clean them,

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and you know, the preparation forum
and the storing them, and they

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are definitely essential part of our diet. As aught them, and I appreciate

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them so much, not only for
the beautiful food they provide, but also

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the flowers that come afterwards, you
know, the beautiful flowers and the desert,

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those bright fucias and oranges and just
those gorgeous colors. You know,

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it's just reminds me how much food
we have here in the desert. But

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those geodem you know, they're so
nutritious and full of these minerals and they

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help just have helped sustain us for
centuries. And I'm appreciative too that people

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are starting to learn more about that, and you know, they're understanding that

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these foods are very they're low maintenance. Of course, we don't cultivate them

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and actually grow them in farms because
they're so you know, there's an abundance

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of them certain areas, and it's
so nice that we can go out and

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find those areas and harvest them and
share them with people who've never had them,

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and just the surprise on their face
when they taste them and you tell

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them what you know, their nutritional
value and you know, and it's just

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so beautiful that it's here for us
here in the deserts. Yes, and

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I want to thank you for actually
taking us, meeting us out there at

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the camp and taking us out there
to go harvest some chaired um, just

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even if it was just for a
little bit, but just kind of getting

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to know what that process is like, you know, for us Autum,

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you know, it wasn't about just
picking, harvesting, foraging. There was

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a process that came afterward. And
when it comes to preparing these wild foods,

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whether it's the buy Dutch or the
wayhalk or you know, like that

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the chartum. And there are different
types of toya toya plants, toya buts

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out there, but the ones that
we picked, we're pretty stickery, had

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a lot of stickers on the Maybe
you can tell us a little bit about

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the kind of the process or those
steps when going out. Yes, my

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goodness, you know, my area
to pick is actually right near Santa Vier,

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kind of behind the baseball field.
My aunt's house is kind of up

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there on that area, and she
we used to pick all the time over

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there, and the thorns were not
that extensive. The thorns on the ones

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over by the camp, my goodness, those were some mean thorns and that

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took a lot of processing to get
them off, and they didn't want to

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come off very easily. So you
know, I've built up my screen which

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is kind of like um, two
by fours framed up, and I take

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some stainless steel mesh and you know, kind of hold that on there.

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It's kind of making like a pretty
much a big strainer, and the larger

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it is, the better. But
what I like to do is just get

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a wicker broom, which I used
to see my Grandmajuana. That's how she

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cleaned them. And I use that
because you can really press against them to

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get those thorns off. You know
a lot of people too, they use

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the showgate and they use that to
clean those thorns off. But those thorns

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took quite a bit to get off, and you know, once you've brushed

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them and you've cleaned them, and
you kind of us also, like I

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had some store colendars that I brought
out there, and sometimes what I do

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is when i'm picking them, as
i'm picking them, I'm kind of shaking

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them in that calendar and making sure
to get more and more thorns off as

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much as possible before I even get
them back to the camp to process them.

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But when we went out there,
I had some people come down,

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friends from up in Tempee, professor
from ASU who's been coming out for years,

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and some of his friends, and
they just went crazy and they picked

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and they picked and they picked,
and I think they almost feel like a

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two gallon bucket full of jodip.
They just left it with me and I

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said, thank you, but oh
my goodness, that took days days to

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clean. And finally I got them
all cleaned and prepped and you know,

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did my blanching and set them out
and let them dry and yeah, and

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then they they're ready for storage.
And it's that, you know, having

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those that long, you know,
labor of love that we do. It's

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the same thing when doing the bite
doot harvest. You know, we're picking,

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we're picking a lot it's all summer
long. It's hot, and then

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you cook and you cook for a
long time too. So it's with those

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labors that we have such great treasures
were gifted with after and so one of

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the cool things that you did share
with us and we put it on the

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website. So if anybody is listening
in right now you want to learn more

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about Tanisha and her work, you
can actually go to our website t O

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Young Voices dot com. There's actually
a whole web page on our website dedicated

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to Tanisha. But we also have
recipes that she's created, and one of

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them is a pickled Jared Um.
Can't you talk a little bit about that

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recipe? Yes, So this brine
that I use is pretty much the same

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brine that I use for pickling my
red onion. But this is like,

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you know, after you've done your
cooking and they're ready to eat, I

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make a brine which the recipes like
Tina set is on the website, and

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I just put them in a jar. I can stick some t peans in

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their onions, garlic, I mean, you name it. Whatever you've got,

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even fresh herbs or dried herbs,
and I just place these all in

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the jar and pour this warm brine
over top of the geodem and after it's

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you know, set for a minute, I seal it up and then you

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know, those things can last for
a long time. I love doing that

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because it's the best way to preserve
them, you know, in large quantities.

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And then when they're ready, I
have a food demo or I just

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want to share with people. There
they are, and you know, there's

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also those big pieces of garlic to
eat with them, our chilies. It's

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really delicious and it can accompany food
or you can actually use it in a

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salad. Yeah. Sometimes I like
to have those on the side of a

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bowl of beans, or even just
eat them straight out the jar. Yeah.

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And as we mentioned earlier, here
we are sitting on top of a

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mountain on a couple of rocks next
to a mosquite tree, and then you

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know, we were noticing these birds
flying by, and it's a windy I'm

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sure you can tell it that it's
pretty windy right now, but it's just

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it's funny, but it's cool.
And you know, as mentioned earlier,

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with the wild foods that we have
here in southern Arizona and with climate becoming

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more and more at the forefront things
that we are seeing today. And it's

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just interesting because back in like twenty
eleven, twenty twelve, twenty thirteen,

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I was in college, and in
college they were talking about climate and we

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were talking about this two degree celsius
us as far as we can go.

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But here we are today in twenty
twenty three, and we're seeing the things

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that we were talking about in class
back then. We're seeing it happening now,

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especially with water. But you know, with the changes in climbing over

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time time and human consumption of natural
resources, we could actually potentially have an

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advantage in dealing with the climate crisis, the food crisis. Looking at our

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indigenous food sovereignty, we can easily
access those wild foods just like you mentioned

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Tunisia, and with the majority of
these wild foods are so resilient that they

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have proven to withstand and adapt to
high heat, temperatures and lack of water.

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But question is for how much longer. But jaredim it's a little bit

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of background. It's worth getting more
into the science based information. As a

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member of the cacti family, they
have a thick, fleshy stem and spines.

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They're native to the deserts of North
and southern America and that they're adapted

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to dry and hot climate. And
of course jaredim is a traditional wild food

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source for us. Ought them all
throughout the southern region of Arizona, and

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as Tunisia mentioned, there's just been
a lot of really good nutritional value you

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high end calcium. It also is
helpful when it comes to dealing with sugar

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low glycemic levels. So, Tunisia, what is your take on climate and

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its effects? You know, I
think the science has shown that with us

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and our behaviors, you know,
like you were saying, with overconsuming,

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overusing our resources, all of the
carbon emissions and everything that creates that like

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the greenhouse effect. You know,
we're definitely seeing it. We're definitely seeing

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the changes in seasons. We're definitely
seeing it in the plants when they're harvested.

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Now, you know, those times
have changed. A couple years we've

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seen where they haven't produced anything,
and sometimes there's years where they're producing in

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abundance. And what they said from
I think it was the other couple years

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ago when they when the hash and
we're growing all the fruit on the sides,

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all the way down they were saying
they're probably in distress because of the

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drought. Of course we don't We
don't know if that's why they're doing that.

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They also could be just trying to
reproduce and repopulate, so they're just

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pushing out a large amount of seeds, you know, And the same thing

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goes for all the desert plants.
But I know that just like us as

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people, we are resilient. We
will adapt. You know, even during

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the times of the pandemic, we
came together and we adapted, just like

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the strength within us, you know, our immune systems, they adapt to

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certain illnesses and viruses. And I
feel, you know, we're just the

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same as the plants and the animals. They do the same thing. They

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know and they read what's going on, and they either will produce, they'll

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go dormant for a little bit until
it's it's season and it's time again.

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But we're definitely hoping they'll they'll stay
and they'll keep just adapting to the environment

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and to the climate. We hope
that the water situation, at least for

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these desert plants. You know,
they seem to do very well with long

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periods of time without water, and
when they do get water, they have

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the way of storing it, and
they know what to do and how to

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utilize every last drop of water they
receive. So we're just going to hope

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and see and just keep being here
with them. I'm glad that you did

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mention water because I feel like the
biggest climate change effect that is most concerning

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is access to water scarcity, which
we are seeing right now here in Arizona.

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An example of that is that the
Rio Verdi Foothills, which is a

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suburb of Scottsdale, Arizona, was
actually cut off from the city's water supply

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just this year in January twenty twenty
three. This of course, left hundreds

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of people without access to water.
And just as scientists for many years have

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warned the public about climate change and
its effects on Earth, we are seeing

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it right now here in real time. And you know, for me,

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as an observer of the land,
in my observations over the past years,

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I've been paying close attention to the
environment unpredictable weather patterns that we've actually seen

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right here at home on the thorn
atam Nation Green struck Shan on the effects

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becoming more noticeable uncommon annual weathers such
as snow flooding due to oversaturated soil from

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a more frequent wet monsoon season,
the big old wildfire that happened up at

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Baba Kirie Mountain here to Gum the
walk Kit Peak. It's been interesting and

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interesting past three four years with all
of those that I just mentioned, and

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then just this past year we did
see that snow that came and touched the

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grounds all throughout again, even in
areas that have never seen snow or don't

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really see snow. I mean before
snow used to be like on once in

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a long time thing, you know. But the last time we actually had

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to know like that was back in
twenty seventeen, twenty eighteen, and it

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hasn't been that long since then,
and here we are seeing it again,

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which is interesting. But again even
for the nation, I know they have

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a climate change adaptation plan, and
it'd be interesting to learn more and hear

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more about what that looks like in
regards because again we are seeing those effects

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and it's just been really interesting.
Again as an observer of the land and

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the environment. Those are some of
the things that I've definitely noticed over the

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years, specifically on the thaw Atham
Nation, did you have anything to add

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to that. You know, I
think this water skier is definitely going to

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push people, hopefully to be more
conscientious about their water usage and doing their

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best to kind of live on little
amounts of water. I know, growing

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up going out to my my grandma
Wanna's house and you know, Ali John,

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it was like she lived in an
older like an old adobe house,

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and there wasn't really much. There
was a little bit of running water,

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but not in the way that we
use running water. She had her big

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hata out there, you know,
and that's how we drank water, and

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it was like it was so good
and it was so like you didn't have

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it just coming out of the faucet
like we have in the city, and

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it just made you savor that water
even more. And she knew, you

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know, at night, to water
her plan she would take very little water

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and just go out there with her
pot or something just to water her gardens.

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But you know, we do the
same thing at the camp being out

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there there's no running water. We're
very fortunate that the fire department Picture Rocks

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Fire Department, I'll give them a
shout out comes out to fill our water

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tank. And that also reminds me
to be very aware of how much water

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I'm using, but going out there
to shower, if you realize you don't

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need that much water to shower,
and you need very little water to wash

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your dishes, but you know,
those things like that, I hope we'll

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push us to make those changes in
our daily lives and just be more more

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aware that water is sacred to us
and it also scarce right now. Thank

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you very much for sharing that.
And I just bring this up and I

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thought it was important for us to
even have this topic of conversation here on

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the podcast, especially with what we're
doing with these Wild food Ways series that

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we're doing with you, Tunisia,
And I thought it'd be perfect. Let's

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talk about jaredim let's talk about climate. Let's talk about the rest of the

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desert foods and water scarcity because we're
living in it right here today. But

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another cool thing I thought was that
it'd be cool if like we could start

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looking at our traditional food harvesting as
a way for food security during a time

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of climate change. Again, it's
just like food security for us, what

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does that look like? It could
look more like us utilizing the desert plants,

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what we do every summer every year, different seasons, is relying on

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our wild foods that we have out
here, and I do feel like maybe

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it's becoming more and more prominent that
young people, people even non oughtam are

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utilizing the foods that we have all
around us. So I just thought that

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would be a really cool thing to
even just think about our own traditional wild

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foods as a source of food security
during a time of climate change. And

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with all this, do you see
any of this as a barrier to preserving

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cultural heritage and traditions where you live, Not at all. You know,

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I feel like we make this circle
around. You know, we started off

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doing a lot of wild food harvesting
to survive, to live off. Before

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you know, we had our modern
conveniences of grocery stores and things like that.

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But now I see it's making a
comeback because you know, people are

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understanding that, you know, they
understand that we have so much here right

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here in our backyards to offer,
and the children are becoming more interested in

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it, and you know, even
you know, like you were saying,

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some non native people are becoming a
lot more interested in it, and you

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know, it's making its way into
even the culinary world. The edible cactuses

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and the mesquite beans, especially for
the mesquite flower generally two for people who

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have food allergies. A lot of
these foods are nutritious, but also you

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know organic, and they don't have
those additives and preservatives that a lot of

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the food has nowadays coming out of
you know, corporations. But I did

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want to mention I'm going to give
give a shout out to also two desert

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harvesters to who they've produced cookbooks with
nothing but you know recipes how to prepare

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and cook with wild indigenous foods.
And this is a great tool to utilize

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and go through and see some of
the different things that they've experimented with and

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made into recipes, cakes, all
kinds of stuff. But I've worked very

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closely with them last year. You
know, these foods are not just just

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out there just plants that they have
no use for them. But now no,

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it's like, no, this is
what they are, and this is

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when the time of year is the
best time to harvest them, this is

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what you can use them for,
and this is what their nutritional value is.

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So I'm definitely appreciative of that that
reference to go to, But it's

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just me. It inspires me more
to experiment and cook and make things.

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So much food plant diversity in our
own bagyards. Tenacious right, there are

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a lot of online references that even
for me, that I go to as

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well when I'm doing my research about
certain topics for the podcast, I always,

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of course want to first find information
and reference information from the lens of

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aught them, of Indigenous, of
Native, but also where there's other sources,

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because we can all relate to different
topics and so I think that that's

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important. But there are there is
a lot of information out there that past

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organizations that are aught them led a
half put online videos on YouTube that you

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can find on how to harvest jaredum, how to cook a recipe or a

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meal, how to prepare it,
how to process it. It's all out

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there, but it's a matter of
you taking that knowledge and applying it as

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well or finding a group. And
of course NITIAS has always been very open

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to welcoming individuals, organizations in groups. You know, I feel like we

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just need to get back to our
ancestral diets and look at our indigenous foods

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as food security. But again,
Tennish, I want to thank you for

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being on this episode. There's any
last thing you want to add, feel

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free to do so. No,
I just want to say thank you Tina

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for being this platform for all of
us, for the Autham community, and

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you know, I appreciate all the
work you're doing. It's um, it's

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fabulous and yeah, let's definitely eat
more indigenous foods. Thank you again so

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much. It's a beautiful. It
was a beautiful setting being up here on

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a mountain with you looking down on
our homelands, ancestral territory, looking at

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the clouds rolling in. We're hoping
not for an early monsoon, but we

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appreciate the rain regardless. Yes,
all right, well, thank you all

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so much for listening in right here, han th on Autham Young Places.

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Thank you for tuning into today's episode
onto Hot at Them Young Voices. Make

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sure to go check out the other
episodes. You can find us on Spotify,

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Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen
to your podcasts.