Ep. 38 Meet Dr. J, O'odham Scholar

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For full disclosure. The views and
opinions expressed in this podcast are those are

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the guests in the host. The
content here is for informational purposes only.

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Good Sash, how are you all
doing here? We are the podcast team

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is back with another episode for you, and we have a special guest,

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just sell Ramon sobern As here with
us to talk all about the work that

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she does and so much more.
If you've never heard of her, you

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don't know much about her work,
you're definitely going to learn so much about

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what all of that entails. Of
course, we've got a Napoleon here with

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us as well, so shout out
to Napoleon checking in from Alkhamard Autem Joe

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Itt. So, thank you all
so much for being here with us today,

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and I'm going to give Napoleon let
him kind of chime in for you

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all, and then we'll have Jasell
introduce ourselves. Yeah, it's good Thosh

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everybody. Thank you all for joining
us and inviting us into your homes or

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wherever you may be. My name
is Napoleon. Like Tina said, I'm

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here on in the autumn jubid northern
area, which is also called Temptee Arizona

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State University. So I'm really happy
to be a part of this conversation and

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also just having our excited to learn
more from our guests here. So yep,

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so all right, So Joselle,
if you can go ahead and let

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the listeners know a little bit of
who you are, your background, Where

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are you from? Sure? Scoot
dash any jiggy, Doctor Jasele Ramon sareign

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chap walk amachid. So good day. My name is doctor Jasell Ramone Sabran

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and I come from the center of
your community on the th not the nation.

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I just recently graduated this past May
from the University of Arizona with my

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doctoral degree my PhD in American Indian
Studies with the minor and journalism, and

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currently I teach at the Not Them
Community College. I'm faculty within the Do

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Not Them Studies program there and primarily
teaching autumn history and culture, and I

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also teach a not Them Food Systems
class as well. Wow, yes,

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doctor, just so, I was
telling everybody because sometimes people have a hard

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time pronouncing my name and I have
two last names, so I used to

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go by doctor J doctor J.
Yeah. I was just about to mention

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that I was like, I know
you're a doctor, but I don't know

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about the last name. I don't
want to be like it's either the one

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or the other wrong, but doctor. Yeah, all right, Well,

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starting from the beginning, when you
decided to attend college, was it something

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that was always encouraged to you,
or did you just kind of have that,

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you know, thought that this is
what I want to do. How

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did that process go for you?
So I would like to say that I

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am a proud second generation University of
Arizona Wildcat and a three time graduate from

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u of A. And my parents
were my encouragement. They are now retired,

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but they talked K through twelve and
so there was no doubt that,

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you know, I was gonna go
to college. It was just how I

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was going to do. What was
I going to go straight to university?

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Was I going to go to a
two year then transfer over? But you

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know, again, education was very
important and in my home and I essentially

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grew up in the classroom with my
parents, and when my mom was teaching

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Indian Asis Primary school, my brother, sister and I all you know,

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drove with her to campus and attended
school, and so we'd always get there

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early, and again, I mean
I was in the classroom all the time.

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And then as I got older,
I would help my dad set up

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his classroom. He taught within Sunnyside
Unified School District. And so again,

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you know, always having that be
part of my life. And it's kind

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of funny because I didn't think I
would become a teacher, honestly, but

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you know, that was my calleing
and I'm really glad that I did.

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But yeah, you know, again
that was just for me. Again,

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you know, you're going to go
to college. You know, the goal

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is to you know, my parents
would say to me, the goal is,

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you know, to better yourself,
you know, do something that you

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love and have a career so you
could support yourself, you know, and

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if you have a family and you
know, all of that good stuff.

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And so I actually graduated early from
high school and I started taking classes early,

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like dual enrollment classes at Pema Community
College. And so I started there

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and then worked my way up to
earning my associate's degree and liberal arts and

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then I transferred to University of Arizona, where I studied journalism and earned my

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bachelor's degree. And then after that
I decided that I wanted to take some

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time travel, so I did and
I was in Italy. I also lived

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in Seattle for some time and then
of course doing journalism work, and then

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I lived in Oklahoma for a couple
of years, and then I finally came

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back and decided to work on my
master's And once I was about to be

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done with my master's degree, there
was a few instructors and professors that said,

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what about getting a PhD? Have
you ever considered it? And at

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first I was like, I was
like, no, thank you, and

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just because of the coursework and the
time. But again it stuck with me

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even though I said no at first, and I started talking to my family

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because they're my number one supporters,
and all of them said, well,

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you have the opportunity, and you
know, if that's something you want to

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consider, we'll support you one hundred
percent. And so you know, with

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that, I decided to go straight
from my pastors into my PhD program.

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And then well it was two years
into my PhD program, I had my

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daughter lydia, and then pandemic hit
and then you know, all of these

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different challenges. But I stuck with
it, even though there was times I

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had to essentially just wait and just
say, you know, especially during the

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pandemic, I couldn't interview, I
couldn't you know, access certain information because

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I couldn't go to those different facilities. So I just again waited until I

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could finish. And my dad was
a big part of that because he said,

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what's you know, every time updating, you know, with those updates,

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So what's going on? Oh?
So you know, and I try

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to be like I kind of did
this and that, but you know,

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he's like, we need to find
time for you to finish this, and

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I'm like, I know. So
with his help though, you know,

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he was like a writing coach,
and we sat down and wed a lot,

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so much time together during the weeks, and then we'd work on my

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different parts of my project also known
as a dissertation, to get to those

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final stages and you know, actually
graduate. And I think part of me

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is still sitting there. You know, I have those moments of like I'm

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done, you know, like I'm
actually done, and it's it's hard to

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believe, and I'm still processing because
it was such a long road going from

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my master's street into my page and
all together it was nine years. Wow,

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that's a long time, but I'm
sure it takes a while to kind

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of think about all the things that
you're so used to doing right and now

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it's like a whole different transition to
all the things you've worked toward now.

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But going backwards a little bit,
how did you know that you were able

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to afford college? For anybody out
there who may have those thoughts of like,

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how can I even afford college,
that's a really good question. And

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for on autum, you know,
we're very fortunate that we have our scholarship

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program, which is now called our
Education Assistance Program, which is you know,

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there to help pay for tuition and
give you a living stipend along with

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paying you know, paying for books
and gas if you have if you live

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off campus. And so that was
my main support of financial support when I

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was going for my undergrad and then
I still utilize the services for my masters

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and my PhD. But also to
knowing that there are scholarships out there that

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whether it's within my program, you
know, within the college because I was

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under Social Behavioral Science college, you
know, again knowing that there are there

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is funding available and just seeking that
out. And so I did that at

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certain times and I'm really grateful for
American Indian Studies Department because they would do

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a call out and say, hey, you know, we have funding for

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you know, anyone that you know
needs for tuition or you know it's looking

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for for a job. We have
funding set aside. And so I always

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take advantage of those opportunities. And
then certainly when I became a PhD student,

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I had the opportunity to be graduate
teacher assistant and then also a graduate

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research assistant. So that was really
helpful because I was then employed by u

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of A and I was amployed by
University of Arizona, and then I had

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tuition reduction. So again there's different
ways of how you can go to the

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university and have scholarships or work part
time and have that tuition reduction. But

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again just seeking those out and saying, hey, you know what, I

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need help to pay for school.
And I'm really proud to say this that

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I walked away with my PhD with
no debt, and so you know,

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not many can actually say that,
but I am really grateful for not the

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nation that they have that service for
tribal members. And also too, I

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would just work other jobs here and
there, through my masters, I was

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actually working. I had the scholarship
assistance from the out the nation, but

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I was also a substitute teacher and
so on Fridays, I didn't have school

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or anything. So that's how I
get some extra cash. And then uh,

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through my PhD. After I was
done with those GTA and g r

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A, then I took on my
position at Notts and Community College. So

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but yeah, again, scholarships,
there's definitely plenty out there for students to

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apply for and then also to you
know, there is free tuition for a

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naive American students now, so that's
something that's really big too here in Arizona.

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Well, thank you for your introduction
and everything and your journey and sharing

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with us here where I work at
too is sort of advocating for students maintaining

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their retention and staying in school.
And we always hear about the financial part

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when I'm curious about you know,
all these students are coming from different areas,

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like how did you balance like you
know, the finances, but even

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balancing yourself like our hymn duck,
are you know our way of life?

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Are are you know? You mentioned
you had a family during that time and

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I can relate to that because you
know, I have I have a twelve

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year old too, and that takes
up a big part of like life happens,

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right, So, and especially during
when you're doing this research and the

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really intense things, you're going from
one more one mindset to a whole another.

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It's like, oh, yeah,
this, this and this, So

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how did you also keep that balance
within you know, yourself, your family,

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the community, Like you know,
you're talking about the responsibilities, you

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know, all these things. How
did you for those folks you are interested?

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This is like, you know,
financially, okay, I can do

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this, I had this opportunity,
but also that that balance within like walking

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into institutions and stuff like that.
So of course, you know, I

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grew up with more of our traditional
side, with our hermathogue, with a

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little bit of Catholicism mixed in there. But yeah, that really being instilled

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in me since I was I was
little and understanding that to you know,

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be healthy and successful is to have
that balance. And so there were plenty

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of times that I had to definitely
step back from something and do a reset

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or somehow be able to find that
balance again, because it's hard, it's

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challenging, especially full time being a
mom, and then also I'm a proud

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auntie and being there for my nieces, and then school and then every thing

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else I do. You know,
that was hard, but really my family

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was it was what kept me going
and were there every step of the way

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with me. Anytime I needed to
work on my paper, do research anything

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like that. You know, I
could go drop off my daughter Lydia with

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my mom, you know. And
but I think also to my parents,

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with their backgrounds in education, always
having those check ins and knowing if they

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hadn't heard from me in a couple
of days or you know, within a

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week, to call me and talk
to me, and you know, always

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knowing the right things to say and
so having that support, but also too,

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you know, knowing that there were
gonna be times because I try to

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be that person like, oh,
I can do everything of my own or

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I you know, it's okay,
I can balance it all, but it's

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okay to ask for help. And
I think that's the biggest thing that I

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had to to face, is yeah, even though I could do it all

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on my own, there's people there
to help. It's okay to say,

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you know, I need help.
With this. Can you pick up lydia?

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Can you you know, And of
course my family's like, yeah,

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don't worry about it. You know
what if you need like three hours,

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that's okay to do that. And
so that was a big part of it.

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But I think also too for me, I love teaching, and so

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when I would those days where I
would be writing and doing my research and

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then I had to step away and
then go into the classroom or teach virtually

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on zoom I, it was kind
of in a way like my way to

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then take a break, do what
I love, share my knowledge, and

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then I could go on with the
day, you know. And so having

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it wasn't to me hard to shift
from one to the other because everything is

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related. You know. My dissertation
research was on the history of land and

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water and Sanavir, so I was, you know, was updating my students

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along the way, you know,
of this is what I been working on,

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or look at I found out this
cool fact or this photo, you

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know, and so different things with
them. So being able to share,

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you know, wasn't hard. But
you know, there were definitely times where,

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like I said, it was challenging, you know, mind, body

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and spirit and I have a really
great partner. His name is Jesse,

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and so there were times where Jesse's
like, I think you need to like

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step away, like let's go for
a drive, you know, let's go

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do this, and I would,
and it was exactly what I needed at

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times. And then also with us
raising our little family, you know,

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he always reminds me that there's always
tomorrow, and I, you know,

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I'm like, I need to get
that on like a sign and hang it,

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because you know, it's always a
good reminder because I'd be trying to

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jam pack as much as I can
into a day. I'd be tired.

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But then you know, he would
say that to me, and I'm like,

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okay, you're right, you know, and I'd step away and then

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we'd have dinner and watch something on
Netflix. And so you know, that's

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again, having that support from my
partner and my family was what really got

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me through all of this. And
you know, and then at the end

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when I was actually done, and
I was talking to my advisors, my

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committee because when you're PhD studn't you
have a group of advisors committee members or

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what they called. And I just
started crying and I was like, fie,

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I was done, and there were
and it was just like that release

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of everything. But it was like
a good cry. But again, you

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know, there were other times too
where it was like you had I had

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to step away because you know,
I was getting promotional because of just the

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what it what it takes to get
get through this. And I love challenges,

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but this was probably I'd put this
up there with actually having my daughter,

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and it was that challenging and hard. And I was joking with someone

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the other day, I'm like,
yeah, my dissertations like my second child,

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because it really does feel like it, you know, with everything that

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I went through. But yeah,
and I think also to to the last

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thing is that definitely with him a
thug, my family, it's it's a

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big thing for us every summer to
take time out of our busy schedules or

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you know, whatever we have going
on to go and harvest by a such

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sorew fruit. So that was always
a time for me to reflect, you

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know, as we are supposed to
for our new year. But it was

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just again that those times that every
year, that was my time to sit

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there and and reset and you know, step away from everything and just be

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around my family and do something that
you know, we've been doing for time

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immemorial and being part of that,
and then also stepping up as I've gotten

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older, you know, to learn
how to make the sea thought the syrup,

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and then you know, also learning
about how to do you know,

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just the whole process and learning about
that and my mom handing it off to

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me and saying, okay, you
know how to do it right and I'm

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like, no, wait what.
But again, you know, taking on

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those responsibilities I have as not the
woman and stepping up, and that's been

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another part of again balancing that,
but also knowing again that you know,

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when it comes to work and other
things, that there is tomorrow, but

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there is priorities, are things that
need to take place, and so making

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sure that I always took time out
for us to go and harvest, and

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you know, also you know,
within the next day or two, also

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making time to again go clean and
get it all prepared to make syrup.

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And then I'm hoping next year that
we'll be able to do jam. And

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eventually I do want to learn how
to make the ceremonial wine. But again

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just learning and making sure that I'm
continuing with with you know, our Heemothoge.

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And I'm a life learner, you
know, as many of us are,

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but just making sure that you know, I don't I don't forget that

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and having it really at the forefront
of everything that I'm doing. Yeah,

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it's just definitely takes a lot of
balance, especially when academia, because there's

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so much that could just come into
place and life itself, life changes or

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small changes. You know, it
is a constant working thing to try to

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get some balance when you're in academia. But thank you for so much for

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sharing that. And when you talked
about your journalism career and what you did,

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and you know, I've read some
of the things even when you were

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in it in that time, you
know, articles were coming out and I'd

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read them and which is really cool. And then I remember when you were

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in the journalism I think you were
a teacher assistant. But you know,

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aside from the teaching, with your
background in journalism, what is it about

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writing that you enjoy so much and
you have enjoyed that you you went that

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route. Well, growing up,
I wanted to be a lawyer because I

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could argue really well. And then
after that, I don't know, there

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was like a couple other professions that
I said I was going to be,

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and then I landed on wanting to
be a writer, and you know,

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and I still hope to be able
to write a few books within my lifetime

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and then beyond being an author.
I was introduced to journalism when I was

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in the fourth grade. So Channel
four KVOA has bear Essential news for kids,

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and they were looking at the school
I was going to Picture X Intermediate.

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They were asking, you know,
does anybody want to be part of

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this? And I read the little
blurb on it, and I said I

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do. And so it was me
and I think two others because it was

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fourth, fifth and sixth grade at
that school, and so they just had

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one representative from each grade. And
so what we did is that we would

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write an essay or something, you
know that whether it was for class or

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something that we did on our own
as interest, and then our advisor would

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send it to Channel four and then
we would come in and they would shorten

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whatever we wrote, and then we'd
read it on a teleprompter and then it

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would show up on Saturdays during Saturday
morning cartoons. And it was just a

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little segment, and I fell in
love with journalism and writing at that point

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and also to I believe it was
the fourth grade, I won my first

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writing essay contest on cooperation and so
I still have my mom I think still

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has a little trophy. And again
it was just something that I really liked

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to do, and so I stuck
with the Bear essentials and oh and also

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to the article that or well what
you read on the teleprompter would then be

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made into an article and then it
would come out in the magazine and so

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with you know, has the polar
Bear on the front. And so that's

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what I did. And then every
year we get to go for a tour

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at the TV station and get to
see some of the journalists there, and

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so it was really cool. And
so after that I stuck with it and

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any chance I had to be published, I would. I wrote poetry.

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I was part of different poetry workshops
and other things, and then high schools

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when I really got into journalism.
And I think for me with journalism is

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that I really like to talk to
people and I really like to tell people's

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stories. And then when I finally
got to uo A and the journalism program

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there, it turned more into my
focus was on Indian country because for US

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Native and Indigenous folks, there was
a lot of negative spotlight on us in

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news and you'd only hear, you
know, we'd only show up when something

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bad would happen in the newspaper or
you know, there was a tragedy.

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It's like, well, what about
all the good? And so I really

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started turning my focus to telling these
positive stories, you know, these amazing

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stories that people were willing to share
with me about their lives or you know,

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whether that was within their personal lives
or professional you know, or even

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you know, something that like an
event that they had put together along with

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others. I wanted to tell those
stories and I really wanted to shed light

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on that, and so so that's
what I did. And I wanted to

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also have more Native and Indigenous voices
within media because there were so many times

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I'd read articles and it would be
about something, you know, pertaining to

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a certain tribe, but there would
be no tribal members interviewed, and it's

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like, that does not make any
sense. And so I and again I

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was like, we need to do
something, and I again decided that that's

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what I wanted to do. And
when I was an undergrad at yo A.

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I was in a writing class and
our professor at the time was like,

314
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well, what is a big goal
that you want to do. What's

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something And I said, I want
to write for Indian Country Today Media network.

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And at that time, they were
in New York, and so he

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said, what's stopping you from reaching
out to them right now? Like after

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he read my paper, and I
said, I don't know. I'm like,

319
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he said, you should reach out, and I did. A had

320
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different assignments and so we had just
turned one in and that he said,

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you know the one you just did. He said, send it to them,

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he said, and see if they'll
publish it. And I said really

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and he said yeah, And so
I did and they published it, and

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they asked me to start being a
freelance journalist for them, and so I

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did and I was there with them
until they decided to shut down. And

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so I think I was with them
seven or eight years, I want to

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say, being a freelance and you
know, I would share ideas, sometimes

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they'd reach out to me, and
so it was a really good relationship and

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I got to meet some really amazing
people and talk to people from all over

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the world and tell their stories and
again I really liked that, and I

331
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had to hang up my hat with
that because of you know, they shut

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down, but also to I was
focusing on my graduate journey and so definitely

333
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still a journalist at heart my first
love and passion, and I've had opportunities

334
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to get things published here and there. But again, you know, I

335
00:27:06.440 --> 00:27:07.799
always say, you know what,
I think, at some point I'm going

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to go back to the newsroom because
I really liked it. And journalism took

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me a lot of places too,
So I had internships Farmington, New Mexico,

338
00:27:18.079 --> 00:27:22.400
Saint Cloud, Minnesota, Seattle,
Washington, and then I also I

339
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studied abroad in Italy through the Journalism
School at the University of Arizona, and

340
00:27:26.799 --> 00:27:33.319
I had opportunity to do photography,
journalistic photography, and then I think I

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had something else too that I did
with journalism there. So that was really

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00:27:38.759 --> 00:27:44.160
awesome to have all those experiences through
that. But you know, again it's

343
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just it's a passion of mine that
I really like. And even with my

344
00:27:49.079 --> 00:27:56.039
masters and my PhD, journalism was
brought into both of those and my masters

345
00:27:56.079 --> 00:28:02.200
included a biography and the late doctor
Bunny fonte Anna, who is a Southwest

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anthropologist who spent his life's work writing
about Autum, specifically my community center her

347
00:28:07.759 --> 00:28:15.000
and also the center of your debac
mission. And so journalistic skills, interviewing,

348
00:28:15.400 --> 00:28:18.799
talking to folks, and then with
my PhD and my dissertation that I

349
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did, interviewing and telling you know, these the stories of folks because a

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lot of what I wrote about for
my research, I wasn't born yet.

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So having these community members and my
relatives even tell the story and you hearing

352
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it directly from them throughout my research
and my paper was really important. So

353
00:28:42.319 --> 00:28:45.720
again it's just a it's a first
love and a passion that I've had and

354
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utilized and will continue to use.
And really hopeful that I can be able

355
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to teach a journalism class one day
and have you know, students really have

356
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this have a chance and opportun tunity
to experience journalism and you know, also

357
00:29:03.279 --> 00:29:11.160
learn about what it means to write
for Indian country today and the importance of

358
00:29:11.200 --> 00:29:15.240
it. Yeah, thank you for
sharing that. I think we're long overdue

359
00:29:15.279 --> 00:29:22.240
for autumn led news coverage newspaper,
even if they're tiring of the runner,

360
00:29:22.920 --> 00:29:26.200
that's inspiring, you know, because
that first passion is always there burning,

361
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So I think we definitely need something. I'm just throwing that out there.

362
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I don't know, like logistics,
but that would be so cool, you

363
00:29:33.599 --> 00:29:38.119
know, because we like our whole
initiative is telling our stories, you know,

364
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and we try to find that connection
between Dono Akamar Auctionin you know,

365
00:29:45.160 --> 00:29:48.559
Kiyachin, those two, like,
you know, such a vast area.

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But if we have like people like
you know, folks like you who know

367
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how to do all like a lot
of that stuff, it's it's really cool.

368
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So when I've learned that you were
a journalist, at first, I

369
00:29:59.680 --> 00:30:02.920
was like, oh, oh,
that's cool because that sort of like that

370
00:30:03.039 --> 00:30:07.400
foundation allows you to be able to
tell these stories in a different way,

371
00:30:07.559 --> 00:30:10.079
just like how we do in like
podcasting, you know, you do it

372
00:30:10.480 --> 00:30:14.960
on the grounds like perspectives and all
these things. So thank you for sharing

373
00:30:15.000 --> 00:30:18.359
that. I appreciate it. Yeah, and I think also too, it

374
00:30:18.400 --> 00:30:22.640
matters too who's writing these stories and
what the topics are. And just to

375
00:30:22.680 --> 00:30:27.359
elaborate a little bit more, when
the announcement from Trump came out about the

376
00:30:27.400 --> 00:30:32.799
border wall, I was contacted by
Indian Country Chain and said, can you

377
00:30:32.839 --> 00:30:38.039
write the story about this? We
need your expertise at this. We need

378
00:30:38.079 --> 00:30:42.920
you to talk to aut them because
that's whose perspective and opinion matter most.

379
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And I remember I was just like
in the middle of you know, my

380
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program, and I was like,
I really don't have time, but I

381
00:30:49.640 --> 00:30:52.680
put things aside and I said,
this is important and I have to do

382
00:30:52.759 --> 00:30:57.319
it. And so I did write
three articles. There was a series of

383
00:30:57.440 --> 00:31:03.200
articles about it, and it was
all Autumn perspectives and opinions, which was

384
00:31:03.279 --> 00:31:08.920
really awesome because I didn't see that
at the time elsewhere like people may have

385
00:31:10.119 --> 00:31:11.759
you know, included oh there was
a statement by this or that, but

386
00:31:12.319 --> 00:31:15.599
you know that that hit close to
home, you know, and our people,

387
00:31:15.680 --> 00:31:22.279
and so I really wanted to tell
it the right way and also including

388
00:31:22.319 --> 00:31:25.079
the history. And I think people
are like, oh, you know,

389
00:31:25.160 --> 00:31:26.559
this is something they're dealing with them
like, no, this isn't the first

390
00:31:27.039 --> 00:31:30.119
first time we've had to deal with
something. It's been going on since eighteen

391
00:31:30.240 --> 00:31:37.000
fifties, so you know, telling
that and having that opportunity that was really

392
00:31:37.039 --> 00:31:41.240
awesome. And then there was other
stories too that I highlighted from for for

393
00:31:41.319 --> 00:31:47.000
Autumn and then I even for in
Canada and other places too. But yeah,

394
00:31:47.079 --> 00:31:51.279
you know again that dumb perspective is
really important. And there's not many

395
00:31:51.359 --> 00:31:53.759
of us that are our journalists that
are aut them that are out there.

396
00:31:53.920 --> 00:31:56.759
But that's one of the things I
always incourage youth. I'm like, we

397
00:31:56.799 --> 00:32:00.920
need more journalists, we need more
you know, aught them serving in all

398
00:32:00.960 --> 00:32:05.839
these different roles you are future leaders, Like, please, you know,

399
00:32:05.960 --> 00:32:09.440
step up and consider these different I
guess you could say paths, you know,

400
00:32:09.599 --> 00:32:15.799
journeys that you could take. Amazing, amazing journey that you've had with

401
00:32:15.000 --> 00:32:22.720
your career in the academic world and
what you're doing now. You know,

402
00:32:22.799 --> 00:32:25.079
you talked a little bit about your
dissertation. And for those who may not

403
00:32:25.319 --> 00:32:30.640
know, what is a dissertation?
What is the definition of a dissertation?

404
00:32:30.720 --> 00:32:32.960
What do you do with that?
And when do you need to do a

405
00:32:34.039 --> 00:32:39.119
dissertation when you're in school? Can
you explain what exactly that is and why

406
00:32:39.240 --> 00:32:45.160
is it that that's something that you
need to complete a doctorate? Sure,

407
00:32:45.720 --> 00:32:52.240
so for a PhD program, you
come in, you know, you start

408
00:32:52.279 --> 00:32:58.440
your program and you come into what
is first your class sload, so you

409
00:32:58.519 --> 00:33:05.680
complete all of your classes whatever's required
for that particular topic major that you're you're

410
00:33:05.720 --> 00:33:10.480
pursuing, and once you're done with
your class work, then you know there's

411
00:33:10.599 --> 00:33:16.759
other stages of your journey that you
have to complete, and so you also

412
00:33:16.839 --> 00:33:23.440
have to do oral and written composition
exams. And so for my particular program,

413
00:33:23.480 --> 00:33:30.680
Americ Indian Studies, I was given
four questions and each question had to

414
00:33:30.799 --> 00:33:37.559
be roughly fifteen pages long, and
I had a week to do this.

415
00:33:37.680 --> 00:33:42.480
It's all pertaining to my interest in
what I wanted to do ultimately for my

416
00:33:42.640 --> 00:33:47.119
research. And that was tough,
very tough. I had a three month

417
00:33:47.200 --> 00:33:51.279
old at that time, so I
was used to staying up long hours.

418
00:33:51.400 --> 00:33:54.039
But I was really grateful that my
mother in law, she came to stay

419
00:33:54.279 --> 00:33:59.160
when I when I was writing.
And so you know, it's a big

420
00:33:59.279 --> 00:34:01.279
challenge, you know, and it's
testing you of course, and it's an

421
00:34:01.279 --> 00:34:07.480
exam. And so after you complete
that, you know you meet your deadline,

422
00:34:07.519 --> 00:34:09.760
you turn it in. Then that
the oral part of that is meeting

423
00:34:09.880 --> 00:34:15.880
with your committee. Like I mentioned, you are able to select four or

424
00:34:15.960 --> 00:34:19.639
five or three to five I should
say, individuals depending on your program,

425
00:34:20.039 --> 00:34:25.360
to be your advisors and to guide
you and help you through your your journey.

426
00:34:25.440 --> 00:34:29.320
And so you meet with them.
They go over everything that you put

427
00:34:29.360 --> 00:34:32.480
together in those essays, those questions
you had to answer, and you get

428
00:34:32.480 --> 00:34:37.440
a pass or fail with that,
and it's again it's challenging. It's meant

429
00:34:37.480 --> 00:34:43.599
to be tough and certainly seen where
you're at, you know, do you

430
00:34:43.719 --> 00:34:45.920
need more time, you know,
to go back and take another class on

431
00:34:45.960 --> 00:34:50.079
this, you know, specific topic
relating to what you want to do.

432
00:34:50.559 --> 00:34:54.159
Are you like set and good to
go? You know? Are their recommendations

433
00:34:54.239 --> 00:34:59.519
And so then once you get through
that, you can start your dissertation research.

434
00:34:59.719 --> 00:35:06.119
And so a dissertation it's a it's
a very long paper, a very

435
00:35:06.199 --> 00:35:14.440
long essay, and mine was about
one hundred and eighty pages, but it's

436
00:35:14.480 --> 00:35:20.719
based on research on a particular topic, and they are there's different parts to

437
00:35:20.760 --> 00:35:24.000
it. So mine was heavily on
history. It was on the history of

438
00:35:24.079 --> 00:35:31.599
land and water and sandivir And I
remember coming to my advisor initially with the

439
00:35:31.639 --> 00:35:35.440
idea and then he said, that's
great, but you gotta have a research

440
00:35:35.519 --> 00:35:38.519
part to it too, so his
and so then I had to figure out,

441
00:35:38.559 --> 00:35:44.159
well, how do I take what
I'm doing with history and again have

442
00:35:44.280 --> 00:35:47.239
this like research component to it.
And so it took a little bit of

443
00:35:47.280 --> 00:35:52.880
time, but you know it's it's
your chance to do a project, and

444
00:35:52.639 --> 00:35:58.159
you know it is a requirement for
you to graduate with your your PhD.

445
00:35:58.400 --> 00:36:04.360
And so this dissertation can look and
be formatted in and you know an any

446
00:36:04.360 --> 00:36:10.000
way you see fit like mine included
audio interviews and then you know, I

447
00:36:10.039 --> 00:36:15.880
had my different chapters that were written
out. Some it may be a video

448
00:36:15.960 --> 00:36:20.119
project that they put together. Again, it just all depends. And then

449
00:36:20.599 --> 00:36:24.280
certainly also too there's the other option
where it's not necessarily like this big long

450
00:36:24.519 --> 00:36:29.800
essay, you know, research paper
however you want to describe it. But

451
00:36:29.920 --> 00:36:34.119
it could be like a series of
long articles that you get published. Again,

452
00:36:34.280 --> 00:36:39.039
it just depends. But it's a
lot of writing. And so when

453
00:36:39.480 --> 00:36:45.119
you pass your exams, then there's
a process that you need to do to

454
00:36:45.199 --> 00:36:52.199
be approved for your research project.
Especially for you know, myself working with

455
00:36:52.320 --> 00:36:57.119
my community with the don out domination, I had to get approval. So

456
00:36:57.159 --> 00:37:01.000
that took about six months, I
want to say roughly for me to get

457
00:37:01.039 --> 00:37:07.360
the approval get support letters, I
had to go before the Center District Council.

458
00:37:07.800 --> 00:37:15.639
Then I had to go to Legislative
Council and seek approval there and again,

459
00:37:15.880 --> 00:37:17.719
you know, it took time,
and I also had to go before

460
00:37:19.159 --> 00:37:24.159
the entire Legislative Council at one of
their sessions, which was that I was

461
00:37:24.199 --> 00:37:29.159
really nervous. Usually I'm okay when
I get up in front of you know,

462
00:37:30.280 --> 00:37:36.760
students and but legislative council, it
has been intimidating. But I read

463
00:37:36.800 --> 00:37:42.280
my resolution, my research resolution,
and so that was really an experience.

464
00:37:42.400 --> 00:37:45.880
And then I had to submit that
to University of Arizona and submit paperwork there

465
00:37:46.360 --> 00:37:51.679
and then finally once everything was totally
approved, you know, had that approval

466
00:37:51.719 --> 00:37:57.719
stamp on it, I was able
to start my process of research. And

467
00:37:57.840 --> 00:38:04.119
that took time, and pandemic happened
and really limited me on what I could

468
00:38:04.159 --> 00:38:07.960
do because you know, there were
individuals I wanted to interview, and we

469
00:38:08.039 --> 00:38:14.719
did have Zoom you know, go
to meeting and other you know platforms,

470
00:38:14.800 --> 00:38:17.239
but you know, I really wanted
to sit down and meet with these people

471
00:38:17.280 --> 00:38:21.840
and talk to them, and so
I had to wait till things got better.

472
00:38:22.519 --> 00:38:27.000
But again, that research process,
you know, was was timely.

473
00:38:27.599 --> 00:38:30.039
But then once I finally was able
to complete all my interviews and do everything,

474
00:38:30.199 --> 00:38:36.400
then the fun part starts. And
that's when the writing starts and so

475
00:38:36.880 --> 00:38:44.159
again you can see this alone took
seven years for me to complete. And

476
00:38:44.199 --> 00:38:47.639
again it was just all these different
steps you have to take and get through

477
00:38:47.920 --> 00:38:52.719
and you know, certainly did not
plan for a pandemic, but had to

478
00:38:52.840 --> 00:38:59.320
again adjust to that for everybody's safety
and their health, and you know,

479
00:38:59.480 --> 00:39:01.960
still try to do what I couldn't
try, and I tried really hard to

480
00:39:02.079 --> 00:39:06.199
keep momentum. I didn't want to
like completely just stop and say, oh,

481
00:39:06.280 --> 00:39:08.280
well, I can't do anything right
now. I kept trying, you

482
00:39:08.320 --> 00:39:12.199
know, to do little things because
I just felt that if I stopped,

483
00:39:12.840 --> 00:39:16.039
then you know, it would be
really hard to start again. So I

484
00:39:16.079 --> 00:39:22.400
did what I could during all you
know, during that time and continued on.

485
00:39:22.519 --> 00:39:28.880
And then there's also with your dissertation. There's a many drafts that and

486
00:39:28.920 --> 00:39:34.280
I laughed because I think one of
my chapters I went through like ten different

487
00:39:34.360 --> 00:39:37.280
versions of it with my committee because
they just were like, I know,

488
00:39:37.360 --> 00:39:39.079
you could you know, this is
good, but I know you could add

489
00:39:39.119 --> 00:39:43.920
more. I know there's you know, and they really challenged me, you

490
00:39:43.960 --> 00:39:46.639
know, which was a good thing. And you know, certainly I at

491
00:39:46.639 --> 00:39:51.280
the time, I didn't see it
as a good thing. I was frustrated,

492
00:39:52.079 --> 00:39:53.440
and I was like, what else
could I put in here? You

493
00:39:53.440 --> 00:39:58.880
know, But it all worked out, and you know, again I realized

494
00:39:58.960 --> 00:40:01.880
later on, like why they had
me work so hard on that that I

495
00:40:01.880 --> 00:40:06.920
think was my chapter one is what
it was. But and then you had

496
00:40:06.960 --> 00:40:12.039
to go through all the revisions and
I actually had a chapter it was about

497
00:40:12.119 --> 00:40:16.920
forty five pages long and had to
redo the entire chapter. And I dreaded

498
00:40:16.960 --> 00:40:21.760
it. Really. I was just
like I knew like the format and how

499
00:40:21.800 --> 00:40:24.280
it looked and the organization of it
needed work, but I didn't think I

500
00:40:24.320 --> 00:40:29.400
had to like reorganize the whole thing, so if you can imagine doing that.

501
00:40:30.719 --> 00:40:34.320
But again, it was just learning
along the way too. I'd never

502
00:40:34.400 --> 00:40:40.480
written anything this long. My master's
thesis, which is also a long essay,

503
00:40:42.360 --> 00:40:46.119
that was ninety pages, and so
this was double that. And you

504
00:40:46.159 --> 00:40:52.920
know, again going through all of
the drafts and to the final stage,

505
00:40:52.360 --> 00:40:55.800
and even then, you know,
now that it's done and it's published,

506
00:40:55.920 --> 00:41:00.320
I look back at it and I
still find myself like wanting to tweak things,

507
00:41:01.440 --> 00:41:06.559
movings around, and I'm just like, no, it's done, but

508
00:41:06.800 --> 00:41:10.840
certainly wanting people to read it.
And you know, so all again,

509
00:41:10.920 --> 00:41:15.440
all of this that had to be
done, but also to the thought process

510
00:41:15.480 --> 00:41:20.519
of Okay, what am I taking
from my research to put in my paper?

511
00:41:20.559 --> 00:41:23.840
Because not everything will fit, you
know, how do I figure out

512
00:41:23.920 --> 00:41:28.639
what exactly to talk about? And
I wanted it to make it too so

513
00:41:28.719 --> 00:41:34.800
that people were understanding what I was
saying, because there there's times in my

514
00:41:35.039 --> 00:41:39.920
graduate journey that I would read dissertations
or you know, other published articles and

515
00:41:40.000 --> 00:41:44.199
I would have no clue what was
being said. I was just like,

516
00:41:44.840 --> 00:41:47.960
what is this person talking about?
Because of their word choice, because of

517
00:41:49.360 --> 00:41:52.199
you know how you know, they're
describing different things. And I didn't want

518
00:41:52.280 --> 00:41:58.599
that, you know, I wanted
everybody to fully understand what I was saying.

519
00:41:58.719 --> 00:42:02.400
And so that was another part to
it too, and having information shared

520
00:42:02.440 --> 00:42:07.719
with me and then me using journalistic
skills and you know, just my writing

521
00:42:08.199 --> 00:42:13.039
abilities to then take, Okay,
this is explained to me, So then

522
00:42:13.079 --> 00:42:16.920
how do I then explain this on
paper? Right, So just to share

523
00:42:16.960 --> 00:42:22.280
a little bit about everything that I
just a preview of everything that I had

524
00:42:22.320 --> 00:42:29.159
to think about and experience during during
my journey. Yeah, and I feel

525
00:42:29.239 --> 00:42:32.519
like what you're doing now, I
mean, I'm sure it pretty much explains

526
00:42:32.599 --> 00:42:37.159
your research and your work. And
you did this little mini presentation tour that

527
00:42:37.239 --> 00:42:42.920
you did, which I actually had
an opportunity last night. I was telling

528
00:42:43.000 --> 00:42:47.559
Napoleon earlier that cause he was saying
that he had watched the video of one

529
00:42:47.599 --> 00:42:51.920
of your presentations, and I watched
the one that you did with the amerind

530
00:42:52.679 --> 00:42:55.559
Museum, but I was at the
gym, on the tread and on other

531
00:42:55.679 --> 00:43:01.760
machines watching it on YouTube. But
it was really good, Like you did

532
00:43:01.840 --> 00:43:08.880
such a good job at thoroughly and
simply explaining your research, and the way

533
00:43:09.000 --> 00:43:15.800
that you structured it from one part
of it to the next part was genius.

534
00:43:15.880 --> 00:43:19.199
It was just so it just flowed
so well, so good job.

535
00:43:19.239 --> 00:43:22.280
I mean, that was amazing,
and I'm really thankful that, you know,

536
00:43:22.440 --> 00:43:27.920
I got to be a little bit
a small part of your research.

537
00:43:29.079 --> 00:43:30.719
Even during that time, I was
just like, wow, this is so

538
00:43:30.800 --> 00:43:35.280
cool, and I couldn't wait to
see what the end result was going to

539
00:43:35.320 --> 00:43:38.199
be. And now here it is, and it's just it's just really good

540
00:43:38.719 --> 00:43:46.559
good work. Doctor j Thank you
so. During your years in education,

541
00:43:47.159 --> 00:43:53.360
what inspired you to do your dissertation
specifically on this topic of the history of

542
00:43:53.599 --> 00:43:59.760
the land and water and walk.
Well, let me take a step back.

543
00:43:59.800 --> 00:44:07.559
At even for my masters, I
have really great supporters in my family

544
00:44:07.760 --> 00:44:15.000
and between my my mom Janice Ramone
and my anti Julie Romone Pearson and my

545
00:44:15.079 --> 00:44:22.039
other anti, Wanji Ramon. But
they were really people I could go to

546
00:44:22.559 --> 00:44:25.280
and ask, like, you know, what should I do my research on?

547
00:44:25.760 --> 00:44:30.159
Because I wanted it to be for
people. I wanted it to be

548
00:44:30.199 --> 00:44:34.280
a resource, you know, whatever
that may be at that time when I

549
00:44:34.280 --> 00:44:36.960
was trying to figure it out,
and I'm like, what do we need,

550
00:44:37.199 --> 00:44:40.159
you know, as a community,
as a nation, And so talking

551
00:44:40.199 --> 00:44:47.079
with them and getting ideas, and
so that's how for my thesis that came

552
00:44:47.119 --> 00:44:53.800
about of why not tell doctor Bunny
Fontana's story because the relationship he had was

553
00:44:53.880 --> 00:45:00.559
very different than other anthropologists with native
you know, indigenous communities, and really

554
00:45:00.039 --> 00:45:06.719
also to learning more about our neighbor
who was five houses north, you know,

555
00:45:06.800 --> 00:45:13.000
on Mission Road, and also to
having tribal members who worked with him

556
00:45:13.079 --> 00:45:15.639
highlighted. And so that's what I
did. And so then when it came

557
00:45:15.679 --> 00:45:22.199
to my dissertation, I went to
my auntie Julie because we've had we had

558
00:45:22.239 --> 00:45:28.000
had conversations prior and I had worked
on some video projects for the Sanavera Latti

559
00:45:28.079 --> 00:45:34.559
Association and one of which was highlighting
the history of land and water in Santa

560
00:45:34.639 --> 00:45:38.920
Vie. And so I did a
three part video series of just talking about

561
00:45:38.920 --> 00:45:45.280
the district's involvement my Auntie as as
a knowledge keeper and all her time and

562
00:45:45.320 --> 00:45:51.599
what she did, and then also
to an elder Mike Enisbutt and talking to

563
00:45:51.719 --> 00:45:54.519
him of his experience and so it
was really great. And after we had

564
00:45:54.559 --> 00:46:01.079
done the first recording with Mike,
he actually passed away, and so we're

565
00:46:01.079 --> 00:46:07.400
really grateful that we're able to capture
his story about being an out them defender

566
00:46:07.440 --> 00:46:12.280
of land rights. And so that
was that that kind of stuck with me

567
00:46:12.840 --> 00:46:17.119
through this that video multimedia project and
so you know, again having those conversations

568
00:46:17.119 --> 00:46:20.960
with her afterwards, and I said, you know, what should I do?

569
00:46:21.440 --> 00:46:27.119
You know, get ideas for me, and we started talking about taking

570
00:46:27.320 --> 00:46:30.880
yes, we're an oral society,
but taking these stories and writing them down

571
00:46:31.280 --> 00:46:37.079
because we felt that in our community
it was time and you know, it's

572
00:46:37.239 --> 00:46:43.880
history and it's important and so we
and there was no one document that had

573
00:46:44.000 --> 00:46:47.159
all of this information in there.
It was really oh, you got to

574
00:46:47.239 --> 00:46:52.280
go talk to again my auntie Julie. Oh, you got to go talk

575
00:46:52.280 --> 00:46:54.000
to so and so. Oh,
you know this person was part of this.

576
00:46:54.079 --> 00:46:58.800
But they're no longer here anymore,
you know, So if you really

577
00:46:58.840 --> 00:47:01.000
wanted to know the history it was, you would have to take the time

578
00:47:01.079 --> 00:47:07.079
to go talk to people that are
still around and you know, hear from

579
00:47:07.119 --> 00:47:10.800
them, and so you know,
that was a challenge. And also too

580
00:47:12.239 --> 00:47:15.719
with my my auntie Julie. You
know again everybody's like, oh, you

581
00:47:15.760 --> 00:47:17.719
know, she's the person I go
to, But for her, she's like,

582
00:47:17.760 --> 00:47:22.280
I'm not getting any younger, and
I want to pass this knowledge on.

583
00:47:22.920 --> 00:47:27.639
And so I gladly stepped up and
said I want to know because for

584
00:47:27.719 --> 00:47:31.679
me, I am a feature,
a late landowner in Santa Vier, and

585
00:47:31.719 --> 00:47:36.960
I was just curious when I was
when I was younger, but I didn't

586
00:47:37.000 --> 00:47:42.840
have that background. I didn't have
the full history to understand why Alats were

587
00:47:42.920 --> 00:47:45.519
upset at that time about a certain
issue or you know, why this was

588
00:47:45.559 --> 00:47:50.079
a big deal. Because again I
did, there was nowhere for me to

589
00:47:50.159 --> 00:47:52.000
go find that out right, you
know, like where I could read it,

590
00:47:52.559 --> 00:47:57.000
and so, you know, and
it certainly wasn't being taught anywhere,

591
00:47:57.320 --> 00:48:00.679
So with that, you know,
that was a big part of it.

592
00:48:00.719 --> 00:48:05.760
And also to you know, I
wanted to do something for my community with

593
00:48:05.840 --> 00:48:10.400
my community, and community based research
is really something that was important to me.

594
00:48:10.599 --> 00:48:16.239
And so with completing my dissertation paper, I always say, you know,

595
00:48:16.280 --> 00:48:19.519
when I'm talking to anybody in the
community, I'm like, we did

596
00:48:19.559 --> 00:48:22.480
this. I didn't do this alone. You all helped me from the very

597
00:48:22.519 --> 00:48:29.199
beginning to achieve this, and we
now have this document that is a resource.

598
00:48:29.800 --> 00:48:32.239
So if people want to learn,
it's right here for them. And

599
00:48:32.400 --> 00:48:37.719
honestly, it's just the start of
I believe my research as an not them

600
00:48:37.800 --> 00:48:43.599
scholar, you know, my lifelong
research. It's just there's so many more

601
00:48:43.639 --> 00:48:47.400
ideas and things that I want to
do from here, you know, jumping

602
00:48:47.440 --> 00:48:52.639
from my dissertation paper, whether it's
you know, publishing different parts of it

603
00:48:53.280 --> 00:48:58.039
or expanding on it because there's so
much of the history, and at the

604
00:48:58.119 --> 00:49:01.119
very end of my paper, I
did start talking about the future, but

605
00:49:01.639 --> 00:49:06.599
also too, like thinking about that
of this is the history, Well,

606
00:49:06.599 --> 00:49:09.000
this is what's going on now when
it comes to water, when it comes

607
00:49:09.039 --> 00:49:14.360
to land, you know, and
expanding more on that in different ways.

608
00:49:14.440 --> 00:49:22.519
And certainly too doing my presentations all
over Tucson and in Phoenix and really sharing

609
00:49:22.639 --> 00:49:27.880
and having people have a better understanding
of the history, because you can't understand

610
00:49:27.920 --> 00:49:30.519
the present or the future if you
don't know the history. And so that

611
00:49:30.719 --> 00:49:34.880
was a really big part of you
know, why I wanted to do what

612
00:49:34.960 --> 00:49:37.840
I did. And again, you
know, having a resource, but also

613
00:49:38.480 --> 00:49:44.800
my paper be able to be used
in education, and you know, I'm

614
00:49:44.800 --> 00:49:50.400
really excited to actually use it in
my classes, and so you know that

615
00:49:50.400 --> 00:49:53.280
that was another big part of it. But I wanted to tell these stories

616
00:49:53.760 --> 00:50:00.440
from these individuals. I wanted to
again have a have all of this be

617
00:50:00.639 --> 00:50:05.800
put together so people could pick it
up and understand, or anytime they need

618
00:50:05.840 --> 00:50:07.920
to reference something, they have it
there, you know. So having it

619
00:50:08.000 --> 00:50:13.639
serve all these different purposes is what
I really wanted. And I think also

620
00:50:13.719 --> 00:50:16.199
too, you know, not only
to be educated, but also too.

621
00:50:16.280 --> 00:50:21.280
I think for some that were in
our leadership, they said, well,

622
00:50:21.360 --> 00:50:24.920
I don't know how to tackle certain
issues because I you know, I don't

623
00:50:24.960 --> 00:50:29.440
know much about what has happened in
your community, right, you know,

624
00:50:29.519 --> 00:50:35.480
because they're from a different community district. So having that and you know,

625
00:50:35.559 --> 00:50:39.360
to to help them professionally, so
in their leadership positions, you know,

626
00:50:39.480 --> 00:50:43.519
is another big part of it,
part of it. But again, you

627
00:50:43.559 --> 00:50:45.800
know, I didn't I at the
time. I was just like, I

628
00:50:45.840 --> 00:50:50.119
just want to put this together,
and not realizing all the different ways that

629
00:50:50.360 --> 00:50:53.159
it can serve, you know,
a purpose and all these different like I

630
00:50:53.199 --> 00:50:58.719
said, professionally for your own personal
knowledge in a class like so on and

631
00:50:58.760 --> 00:51:02.559
so forth, and you know,
definitely wanting it to be shared with as

632
00:51:02.639 --> 00:51:07.239
many people because there's always this running
joke is that you're the only person and

633
00:51:07.280 --> 00:51:10.840
maybe a few family members that are
actually going to read your thesis and dissertation.

634
00:51:13.000 --> 00:51:15.960
But for me, I'm like,
no, that's not the case.

635
00:51:15.000 --> 00:51:20.199
For me, I don't want that. I'm like, I want to share

636
00:51:20.239 --> 00:51:22.840
it, and you know, I
have as many people have it on their

637
00:51:22.840 --> 00:51:28.960
bookshelves as possible. And so again
that's why I really wanted to create something

638
00:51:29.079 --> 00:51:32.039
meaningful, you know. And I'm
really proud of my community and all of

639
00:51:32.119 --> 00:51:37.199
their help in this every step of
the way, you know. And for

640
00:51:37.280 --> 00:51:42.159
those that were willing to be interviewed, and I interviewed about fifteen people to

641
00:51:42.239 --> 00:51:46.559
get their whether it was you know, stories of these certain historical events I

642
00:51:46.599 --> 00:51:52.159
wrote about, or just picking their
brains on like what do you know,

643
00:51:52.280 --> 00:51:55.280
what don't you understand? What would
you like to know? Because that was

644
00:51:55.320 --> 00:51:59.199
another part to it too. It's
like, you know, I know what

645
00:51:59.840 --> 00:52:02.039
I know and what I don't know, but is that the same as everybody

646
00:52:02.079 --> 00:52:07.559
else, you know, and so
really taking their opinions and you know,

647
00:52:07.599 --> 00:52:12.800
their input to make sure that I
did achieve that within the paper too.

648
00:52:13.000 --> 00:52:17.280
So it was a process too with
again like all you think about it now

649
00:52:17.320 --> 00:52:22.440
and now that I'm able to like
digest and look back on everything too,

650
00:52:22.639 --> 00:52:25.239
you know, and how I did
different things. There's just there's a lot

651
00:52:25.360 --> 00:52:30.599
of different like I said, the
process for research, the process for writing,

652
00:52:30.000 --> 00:52:37.000
and then now thinking about like what's
next and where I'm going from here.

653
00:52:37.079 --> 00:52:38.559
And believe me, I have a
whole list of all these great ideas

654
00:52:38.559 --> 00:52:42.159
that I have that I kept having
to be like, no, I gotta

655
00:52:42.199 --> 00:52:45.000
wait till I'm done. And now
that I'm done, I'm like, oh,

656
00:52:45.039 --> 00:52:49.960
okay, Like what on the list
can I start with? And I

657
00:52:50.000 --> 00:52:54.880
think one of the big things for
me is publications and having certain sections or

658
00:52:54.880 --> 00:53:00.639
a chapter you know, published from
from my dissertation, and I think also

659
00:53:00.639 --> 00:53:05.880
too, eventually maybe down the road
making my dissertation into a book. You

660
00:53:05.920 --> 00:53:09.440
know, that's not off the table, but certainly too. I want to

661
00:53:09.440 --> 00:53:14.559
make sure that everybody's on board with
that, all those that helped me put

662
00:53:14.559 --> 00:53:19.760
my dissertation paper together. But you
know, again, that's just that's I

663
00:53:19.800 --> 00:53:22.199
think the first thing. And there's
some other projects too that I want to

664
00:53:22.239 --> 00:53:27.639
be able to help be part of
and help and share my knowledge. So

665
00:53:27.760 --> 00:53:31.519
we'll see, you know what in
the future, and you know how be

666
00:53:31.599 --> 00:53:37.480
able to utilize what I learned through
my graduate journey or journeys I should say,

667
00:53:37.960 --> 00:53:44.719
and you know where I go from
here. Yeah. I was telling

668
00:53:45.039 --> 00:53:49.800
Tina earlier that I was watching your
video from two separate times that you presented.

669
00:53:49.880 --> 00:53:55.559
I think your hair was green at
that time in one of them,

670
00:53:55.719 --> 00:54:00.639
and then the one recently that you
did at the uh the hymn that key,

671
00:54:00.679 --> 00:54:05.280
I think that's the one was that
the one. There was another some

672
00:54:05.360 --> 00:54:07.800
bits and parts of that, and
just kind of hearing the differences, like

673
00:54:07.840 --> 00:54:13.559
you're talking about drafts and stuff,
you know, writing thesis and things like

674
00:54:13.599 --> 00:54:16.079
that. And one of the things
I mentioned in Tina was just like how

675
00:54:17.079 --> 00:54:23.480
that embodiment and connection that you had
with the pape, the newspapers and the

676
00:54:23.559 --> 00:54:30.880
things that were documented the photos,
capturing those or not captured, but seeing

677
00:54:30.960 --> 00:54:37.480
those kind of like brought out and
lived and being in this history as a

678
00:54:37.480 --> 00:54:40.960
big part. That really stuck out
to me because I I don't know why,

679
00:54:40.960 --> 00:54:46.440
I always like interested in you know, these like documents of photographs and

680
00:54:47.119 --> 00:54:51.079
you know aught them, you know, things that they were built back then,

681
00:54:51.320 --> 00:54:54.840
or you know, families, and
so very rarely do I see anything

682
00:54:54.880 --> 00:54:59.119
of like you know, lineage is
being documented in that way, and so

683
00:54:59.199 --> 00:55:02.320
I thought that was really cool too, that you're able to see that and

684
00:55:02.360 --> 00:55:06.519
be like, oh, that's you
know, actually your your you know,

685
00:55:07.119 --> 00:55:09.519
she actually has those already, like
yeah, ask her about it, you

686
00:55:09.559 --> 00:55:14.039
know, and how much of that
is so important in our work that we

687
00:55:14.159 --> 00:55:19.880
do too as academics to really document
those things and bring it back when it's

688
00:55:19.960 --> 00:55:22.599
needed. And I thought that was
just so the most well to me,

689
00:55:22.719 --> 00:55:25.559
that was like the most powerful part
of the you know, because like the

690
00:55:25.639 --> 00:55:30.719
history and everything is always never never
like that's that's happened, right, so

691
00:55:30.800 --> 00:55:34.119
it's never really gonna change. But
when you see those photos, you're like,

692
00:55:34.199 --> 00:55:37.719
then you live, you live those
memories and like Dan, they're out

693
00:55:37.719 --> 00:55:42.639
doing this and so I thought that
was that was really cool, And again,

694
00:55:42.760 --> 00:55:45.960
yeah, this is the commending you
on a lot of the work and

695
00:55:46.039 --> 00:55:50.840
everything that you're able to bring back
because it also helps, you know,

696
00:55:50.920 --> 00:55:55.880
like I connect with not knowing much
about you know, the Walk district,

697
00:55:58.239 --> 00:56:02.639
so you know only from like bits
and pieces when we talk about language and

698
00:56:02.719 --> 00:56:09.119
culture and things of that, like
are different dialects history, how it politically

699
00:56:09.239 --> 00:56:15.159
happens. And I think you did
a really awesome job of politically putting you

700
00:56:15.199 --> 00:56:16.559
know, this is what was going
on. You know, the guy that's

701
00:56:16.719 --> 00:56:22.519
purchase all these separations, these different
ways, and it's such a small community

702
00:56:22.519 --> 00:56:27.599
but large impact, you know,
because you mentioned you know we're a very

703
00:56:27.599 --> 00:56:34.760
small community, but you know there
was a lot going on. Families were

704
00:56:34.800 --> 00:56:39.920
involved, you know, senators,
state representatives, you know, being in

705
00:56:40.000 --> 00:56:46.559
different you know, you know,
you're whether you're role member, you're just

706
00:56:46.599 --> 00:56:51.519
a person in the community living there. You know, all these different players.

707
00:56:51.559 --> 00:56:54.760
So I think that was just a
lot and I think that was just

708
00:56:54.800 --> 00:57:00.440
really my thoughts. And I was
seeing your video and then off the like

709
00:57:00.639 --> 00:57:04.559
just looking up some of the history
and just getting that knowledge, and I

710
00:57:04.559 --> 00:57:07.000
hope that other are like our listeners, like encouraging to reach your work and

711
00:57:07.559 --> 00:57:12.039
that it doesn't sit there. You
know. I had sort of the same

712
00:57:12.119 --> 00:57:15.159
thing when I was reading my thesis, but I ended up doing a practicum,

713
00:57:15.559 --> 00:57:19.360
but that was sort of the same
thing as just that joke too.

714
00:57:19.400 --> 00:57:22.880
It's just like, yeah, you
know, we're going to change the world

715
00:57:22.960 --> 00:57:24.119
and do all this and it's just
sitting there, you know, like,

716
00:57:24.199 --> 00:57:29.760
oh it was cool and that was
a good time in life. But I

717
00:57:29.800 --> 00:57:35.119
think that's cool because like as Native
people like our stories, like we hold

718
00:57:35.159 --> 00:57:37.920
on to some of those even though
they're like snippets of the so so what

719
00:57:37.960 --> 00:57:43.039
if they called the past, but
we bring out those dissertations like oh,

720
00:57:43.119 --> 00:57:46.599
great Green you know wrote this,
and this is how we can use it

721
00:57:46.639 --> 00:57:51.679
as a tool to really like build
and for our future generations, like you're

722
00:57:51.719 --> 00:57:55.239
mentioning and teaching and and kids of
that nature. So yeah, that's just

723
00:57:55.320 --> 00:57:59.440
my thoughts on that. And then
thank you for sharing on a lot of

724
00:57:59.440 --> 00:58:04.320
that and how you went through it. Yeah, thank you for sharing that.

725
00:58:04.480 --> 00:58:07.559
And yeah, you know, my
my family was also you know,

726
00:58:07.639 --> 00:58:15.440
and throughout my my research as well, and my who would she would pop

727
00:58:15.519 --> 00:58:19.960
up every now and then, and
it was really funny at times because I

728
00:58:19.960 --> 00:58:22.920
would go tell my mom and my
sister and Mom, did you see this?

729
00:58:22.079 --> 00:58:25.079
And you know, you know she
was in this, She was you

730
00:58:25.119 --> 00:58:30.599
know, photographed and you know,
interviewed, and so we were finding things

731
00:58:30.639 --> 00:58:32.840
that we didn't even know about or
you know, my mom would be like,

732
00:58:32.880 --> 00:58:36.840
oh, you found that out,
you know, And so it was

733
00:58:36.920 --> 00:58:39.559
really funny. And I think also
too for me, I was able to

734
00:58:42.000 --> 00:58:46.159
take the stories that my who would
my maternal grandmother shared and put them in

735
00:58:46.280 --> 00:58:52.920
my dissertation. You know. So
it's that having those multi generation you know,

736
00:58:52.280 --> 00:58:58.519
and seeing that you know, and
having that knowledge passed down and being

737
00:58:58.559 --> 00:59:04.159
able to put that and also to
you know, there were times that you

738
00:59:04.159 --> 00:59:08.280
know, I was tired. I
was just you know, getting frustrated or

739
00:59:08.760 --> 00:59:13.800
something, and she would pop up
in the right times to just kind of

740
00:59:13.840 --> 00:59:17.239
give me that reminder to keep going. And again, whether it was in

741
00:59:17.280 --> 00:59:22.440
an article i'd find or a quote
from her, and again it was just

742
00:59:22.760 --> 00:59:28.639
really I pay attention to that with
their spirituality and you know, and it

743
00:59:28.679 --> 00:59:32.679
was a big part of like also
motivation to keep going because there weren't plenty

744
00:59:32.719 --> 00:59:37.320
of times I wanted to just give
up and be like, you know what,

745
00:59:37.679 --> 00:59:40.159
I'm fine with how far I made
it, you know, like I

746
00:59:40.280 --> 00:59:45.960
might just hang my hat up,
but you know it again from her,

747
00:59:45.400 --> 00:59:51.719
and then even also to my late
Anti Wanjie, you know, and having

748
00:59:51.760 --> 00:59:55.599
them again pop up and kind of
give me that second wind or just that

749
00:59:55.719 --> 01:00:02.440
motivation and so and then also to
fighting photos of like my great grandparents who

750
01:00:02.639 --> 01:00:07.039
my grandma talked about, you know, my who talked about, but I

751
01:00:07.159 --> 01:00:12.400
never seen photos of them. And
then discovering photos and published books you know

752
01:00:12.480 --> 01:00:15.719
that we didn't even know that those
photos were used in there. And then

753
01:00:16.519 --> 01:00:22.119
also to Arizona Historical Society. I
went there and searched through you know,

754
01:00:22.639 --> 01:00:30.440
different boxes they had, and so
finding photos of also you know, family

755
01:00:30.519 --> 01:00:36.320
friends and others you know in Cena
Rag community and sharing those because we have

756
01:00:36.639 --> 01:00:42.039
a Facebook page for Cenebra community and
so I would update people and say,

757
01:00:42.079 --> 01:00:45.079
hey, do you know I found
this. I found that, and then

758
01:00:45.079 --> 01:00:46.719
people are like, wow, you
know, I didn't even know that photo

759
01:00:46.840 --> 01:00:52.320
existed. So that was also another
part too, and you know, sharing

760
01:00:52.360 --> 01:00:58.679
all of those different photos and then
also the newspaper articles I found and you

761
01:00:58.679 --> 01:01:02.000
know, it's just interesting how how
connections happen and how things, you know,

762
01:01:02.239 --> 01:01:08.320
unfold and come together. And so
again those little reminders that I'm right

763
01:01:08.360 --> 01:01:13.119
where I need to be and I'm
you know, doing doing this for all

764
01:01:13.119 --> 01:01:15.920
the right reasons, and you know, I need to keep on going again.

765
01:01:16.199 --> 01:01:21.840
So you know, it was just
thinking about things and having those those

766
01:01:21.880 --> 01:01:24.800
times of encouragement and so but yeah, it made it that much more meaningful

767
01:01:24.840 --> 01:01:29.960
to me because I had a direct
tie to not only community, but all

768
01:01:30.000 --> 01:01:32.360
these events that happened. And I
was teasing my auntie Juli, and I

769
01:01:32.400 --> 01:01:36.400
was like, I didn't even know
you were part of all of these things

770
01:01:36.480 --> 01:01:39.400
that happened. You know, I'm
really glad I had all those times to

771
01:01:39.440 --> 01:01:44.119
sit down and talk with her,
and I think with her alone, I

772
01:01:44.199 --> 01:01:51.440
have maybe I don't even remember,
probably eight hours maybe of like audio and

773
01:01:51.559 --> 01:01:53.239
a lot of it's just us kind
of like going back and forth and just

774
01:01:53.280 --> 01:01:59.639
me asking questions about family. So
it's really it was really an awesome experience.

775
01:02:00.880 --> 01:02:06.559
So for those who who may be
trying to piece together the dissertation topic,

776
01:02:06.599 --> 01:02:13.159
we're talking about doctor Jay's dissertation,
which is on the history of land

777
01:02:13.239 --> 01:02:19.719
and water in wak Trick Shan Sinevir
community, and in her dissertation she focuses

778
01:02:19.880 --> 01:02:22.559
on the you know, of course, the history, the historical part of

779
01:02:22.599 --> 01:02:29.679
it, what the Santa Cruz River
was once like, what it looked like,

780
01:02:29.800 --> 01:02:31.679
how it was thriving, how it
was you know, it was a

781
01:02:31.719 --> 01:02:37.880
whole river. And then what impacted
that rivers and how this you know,

782
01:02:37.920 --> 01:02:43.280
no water, no more water flowing
through, how that impacted the autumn in

783
01:02:43.639 --> 01:02:47.960
Santa Feir and then just so much
other things that kind of come into play

784
01:02:49.000 --> 01:02:54.000
with the land and the water itself
and the history that it's had, some

785
01:02:54.119 --> 01:02:59.719
good, some not so good,
the fighting that the autumn did. When

786
01:02:59.760 --> 01:03:07.440
you mentioned the the defenders what was
their name, Autumn Defenders of Land Rights,

787
01:03:07.760 --> 01:03:13.679
Yeah, Defenders of Autumn land rights. Sorry, Defenders of Autumn land

788
01:03:13.760 --> 01:03:20.639
Rights. And and why that organization
or that group was put together just because

789
01:03:20.719 --> 01:03:28.679
of some potential folks trying to come
in and build a whole city or community.

790
01:03:29.199 --> 01:03:31.679
And you know, how the allotments
came to play. That's also again

791
01:03:32.079 --> 01:03:38.880
the land portion of the dissertation is
is how that comes into play and explaining

792
01:03:39.000 --> 01:03:44.559
what is allotment, how did that
happen? And again that happened back in

793
01:03:44.760 --> 01:03:52.679
history when the Mertigan were getting autumn
to be more I don't, I guess,

794
01:03:52.800 --> 01:03:55.719
you know, in modern times,
more contemporary with the work that they're

795
01:03:55.840 --> 01:04:00.719
doing. It's explained so much more
better her in there. But that's a

796
01:04:00.800 --> 01:04:06.159
big part of why her dissertation is
specifically focusing on land and water, just

797
01:04:06.159 --> 01:05:08.440
because there's been so much with it
historically up until today. Where can people

798
01:05:08.599 --> 01:05:12.800
find your dissertation if they're interested and
they want to read it. You can

799
01:05:12.920 --> 01:05:19.400
actually find it on the University of
Arizona Library website also too, you can

800
01:05:19.440 --> 01:05:26.639
reach out to me directly and I'll
be happy to email It is also at

801
01:05:26.880 --> 01:05:32.599
Dona then Community College in the library
there, and the Sanabya a Latti Association

802
01:05:32.840 --> 01:05:38.559
is also another place you can reach
out to and they can send you a

803
01:05:38.639 --> 01:05:44.079
copy, whether it's print or digital. And then I'm also wanting to provide

804
01:05:44.119 --> 01:05:48.159
a copy to the Himmaduky the Cultural
Center and museum, so planting it in

805
01:05:48.199 --> 01:05:53.039
different places so you can be able
to check it out. But certainly if

806
01:05:53.039 --> 01:05:55.800
you want your own copy, I'm
happy for you to reach out email me

807
01:05:56.079 --> 01:06:00.440
and I'll send you it. Yes, definitely send us a copy with it.

808
01:06:00.280 --> 01:06:05.159
So one more quick question in regards
to your research. During your research,

809
01:06:05.239 --> 01:06:11.360
what was the most surprising piece of
information or detail or story that you

810
01:06:11.519 --> 01:06:20.239
found or heard. It's a good
question. Let's see. I think for

811
01:06:20.280 --> 01:06:30.079
me, one of the big parts
was piecing together what transpired with the proposed

812
01:06:30.199 --> 01:06:36.840
land development that was brought in in
the late nineteen seventies by the Santa Cruz

813
01:06:36.880 --> 01:06:44.440
properties and an individual, Jim Rothschild
Junior, was at the forefront of that,

814
01:06:44.840 --> 01:06:49.199
and I had known a bit about
it, but really diving into the

815
01:06:49.239 --> 01:06:57.039
details and the fact that the Tucson
Weekly, which was a bit different back

816
01:06:57.079 --> 01:07:03.559
in the late nineteen seventies into nineteen
eighties on their coverage and so finding One

817
01:07:03.559 --> 01:07:12.199
of my former journalism professors at that
time was a PhD student, and she

818
01:07:12.880 --> 01:07:17.320
worked on a series of all these
articles that highlighted what was going on throughout

819
01:07:17.320 --> 01:07:24.559
the whole time with the proposed land
development and tracking those down, you know,

820
01:07:24.719 --> 01:07:28.360
and saying, well, where can
I get a copy of all of

821
01:07:28.400 --> 01:07:30.239
them? I don't want just like
one or two, I want the whole

822
01:07:30.360 --> 01:07:35.840
series of these articles, and you
know, contacting all these different people and

823
01:07:35.880 --> 01:07:43.239
then finding them at our special collections
at the University of Arizona and being able

824
01:07:43.280 --> 01:07:47.480
to then have all of those and
dive into that, because it's really interesting

825
01:07:47.960 --> 01:07:53.679
how there was actually a reporter in
I want to say, probably like the

826
01:07:53.719 --> 01:07:58.719
sixties, seventies, maybe early eighties
that their beat was to cover the th

827
01:07:58.920 --> 01:08:03.079
out the nation, to cover Santavie, and so there was always coverage that

828
01:08:03.199 --> 01:08:11.000
we were in the news, you
know, of highlighting business developments, highlighting

829
01:08:11.039 --> 01:08:14.800
what was going on with the proposed
land development, you know, all of

830
01:08:14.840 --> 01:08:19.079
these different things, and so there's
all these really neat and interesting articles.

831
01:08:19.560 --> 01:08:27.319
So again diving into that and finding
how all these investigative articles were done and

832
01:08:27.520 --> 01:08:30.920
so detailed, and you know,
I'm just like, wow, if I

833
01:08:30.960 --> 01:08:33.520
didn't have these, like how would
I have told this this section, you

834
01:08:33.520 --> 01:08:40.239
know, along with weaving in the
stories from the community members and my auntie

835
01:08:40.880 --> 01:08:45.079
and so I think for me that
was just that part was having all of

836
01:08:45.119 --> 01:08:51.479
those details, all of that information
and being able to provide that throughout my

837
01:08:51.680 --> 01:08:58.920
dissertation paper, which was to me
really amazing because you know, it's something

838
01:08:59.000 --> 01:09:02.479
I feel that a lot of the
community members didn't know about, you know,

839
01:09:02.640 --> 01:09:08.039
unless you were there standing up and
saying no, we don't want this.

840
01:09:08.279 --> 01:09:12.199
You know, unless you know you
are part of that group, the

841
01:09:12.239 --> 01:09:15.960
defenders about them land rights. You
know, it's like if you unless you

842
01:09:15.960 --> 01:09:18.319
were really active in it, you
didn't know much about it, you know,

843
01:09:18.560 --> 01:09:23.119
and these and it's not like these
articles are are readily available either,

844
01:09:23.439 --> 01:09:27.279
you know. So to me that
was the most interesting was finding all of

845
01:09:27.319 --> 01:09:30.399
that and being able to say,
hey, this happened and then doing this

846
01:09:30.560 --> 01:09:38.000
like chronological order of you know,
this is what happened first second, and

847
01:09:38.039 --> 01:09:41.399
then just the span of that time. You know. It wasn't like,

848
01:09:42.000 --> 01:09:45.359
oh, the person you know,
that company and that person who is ahead

849
01:09:45.359 --> 01:09:48.800
of it came and took no for
their answer and just left. You know.

850
01:09:49.319 --> 01:09:55.920
They were really trying to build a
city of one hundred thousand that would

851
01:09:56.239 --> 01:10:00.920
be uh it would be the south
of where the where the Bock Mission is.

852
01:10:01.600 --> 01:10:05.079
And I couldn't imagine that today.
If you were to stand there,

853
01:10:05.199 --> 01:10:09.800
look north at the church and then
turn around and then you would have seen

854
01:10:10.359 --> 01:10:14.319
this city and it was going to
be on allotted land and it was going

855
01:10:14.359 --> 01:10:19.079
to be partially on tribal land within
the district. So again just I couldn't

856
01:10:19.159 --> 01:10:25.079
fathom it and then it wasn't even
for aut them. That was another part

857
01:10:25.119 --> 01:10:30.600
to They just wanted the land and
promised that we would become millionaires, which

858
01:10:30.680 --> 01:10:35.479
wasn't true at all. So it's
just one of those events historical events,

859
01:10:35.520 --> 01:10:42.359
major events that happened pertaining to land
that I'm really glad I was able to

860
01:10:42.640 --> 01:10:45.800
find all of this information and put
it together in a chapter. And I

861
01:10:45.840 --> 01:10:51.479
really I actually feel that every chapter
that I wrote could be its own dissertation

862
01:10:51.600 --> 01:10:57.279
paper within itself, but I didn't
want to do that. I really wanted

863
01:10:57.279 --> 01:11:02.119
to again have this one document where
you get a big chunk of what happened,

864
01:11:02.680 --> 01:11:06.680
you know, and hopefully that will
then spark interest for you to then

865
01:11:08.239 --> 01:11:13.279
go talk to somebody or you know, start attending, you know, a

866
01:11:13.359 --> 01:11:16.279
lot to association meetings if you're in
a lotti or you know what I mean.

867
01:11:16.319 --> 01:11:20.279
I'm just hoping it just there's more
that will come from from reading these

868
01:11:20.279 --> 01:11:25.680
different chapters. And certainly also too
when I wrote about the Southern Arizona Water

869
01:11:25.760 --> 01:11:30.319
Right Settlement Act, and there are
many people that are no longer living that

870
01:11:30.439 --> 01:11:35.680
did help with that. But one
of the lawyers, he lives in Albuquerque,

871
01:11:35.800 --> 01:11:39.600
and that's what he told me to. I was getting his input on

872
01:11:40.079 --> 01:11:43.800
what I had put together and wanted
him to read my draft. And that's

873
01:11:43.800 --> 01:11:45.279
what he told me. He's like, you know, you could have just

874
01:11:45.319 --> 01:11:47.520
wrote about this, right And I
said, yes, I understand that I

875
01:11:47.520 --> 01:11:53.119
didn't want to. I was like
maybe I was like down the road,

876
01:11:53.159 --> 01:11:58.840
I'll like write more of just on
that topic. But it's just was interesting,

877
01:11:59.000 --> 01:12:02.399
you know what I had to go
and dig out, you know,

878
01:12:02.960 --> 01:12:09.039
and even I guess what was covered, the different topics and whoever those journalists

879
01:12:09.119 --> 01:12:13.399
were, whether they're working for Tucson
Weekly or Arizona Daily Star, even when

880
01:12:13.439 --> 01:12:17.039
we had Tucson Citizen, you know
as another paper, and having those those

881
01:12:17.079 --> 01:12:24.720
different beats covered, and thankfully with
the fighting of those certain autom because there

882
01:12:24.760 --> 01:12:30.920
were some auntum that were for that
you know, ninety year lease and from

883
01:12:30.000 --> 01:12:34.239
the developer and believed that they were
going to become millionaires and that's what they

884
01:12:34.279 --> 01:12:41.159
wanted, right. Yeah, that
is and it actually Mike Keyness but said

885
01:12:41.159 --> 01:12:45.199
it best, is that it really
divided our community because you had so many

886
01:12:45.199 --> 01:12:51.119
of those that saw dollar signs and
you know, wanted and needed money to

887
01:12:51.199 --> 01:12:56.560
be able to provide in you know, for their families and to live comfortably,

888
01:12:57.039 --> 01:12:59.319
you know, and they thought,
oh, this would take all my

889
01:12:59.399 --> 01:13:03.000
worries, you know, because I'd
have this income coming in, whereas others

890
01:13:03.039 --> 01:13:10.119
were like, uh no, this
is not what it seems, and there's

891
01:13:10.199 --> 01:13:15.479
there's lies that are being told to
you and really reading the fine print and

892
01:13:15.520 --> 01:13:20.359
doing the math and everything and realizing
there's nowhere close to becoming a millionaire,

893
01:13:20.760 --> 01:13:25.520
you know, with what is stated
in those documents. You know, that's

894
01:13:25.560 --> 01:13:29.479
not what was gonna happen, you
know. And so and again also too,

895
01:13:29.479 --> 01:13:31.800
there wasn't like, oh, and
you can come live in this city

896
01:13:31.800 --> 01:13:35.960
of one hundred thousand, you know, there wasn't and you'd be promised anything.

897
01:13:36.079 --> 01:13:39.520
It was just like no, you
know what, you can have the

898
01:13:39.520 --> 01:13:43.359
money, We'll just take the land. And you know, again, it

899
01:13:43.439 --> 01:13:46.560
was really hard on a lot of
families, and even within leadership too,

900
01:13:46.600 --> 01:13:54.079
because there was leadership for Senator district
and also the nation or at the time

901
01:13:54.239 --> 01:13:58.520
we were called pap wall Go Tribe, and they were on board for this.

902
01:13:59.119 --> 01:14:03.199
So it's like, again, how
I just couldn't imagine that time of

903
01:14:03.239 --> 01:14:08.960
how the feelings, you know,
when everybody was in the room or you

904
01:14:09.039 --> 01:14:12.840
have everybody that was not for these
others that were for it, and even

905
01:14:12.880 --> 01:14:15.119
have tribal leadership that was for it, you know what I mean. And

906
01:14:15.159 --> 01:14:23.119
it was just kind of this interesting
time. And I remember in that interview

907
01:14:23.199 --> 01:14:25.840
with my keyness, but he even
said that, you know, it took

908
01:14:25.960 --> 01:14:29.199
some time, he said, for
you know, he said, for me

909
01:14:29.399 --> 01:14:31.760
and my family members to be able
to be on good terms and talk again

910
01:14:32.039 --> 01:14:36.920
because of all of that that transpired
during that time. And so you know,

911
01:14:36.960 --> 01:14:40.760
in thinking about that, it wasn't
just like, oh, this developer

912
01:14:40.800 --> 01:14:45.039
came in, but the effects of
what that caused on my community were huge,

913
01:14:45.640 --> 01:14:50.960
you know. And but again I'm
really glad for that group, the

914
01:14:50.960 --> 01:14:55.720
defenders about the land rights, because
they didn't give up because again, this

915
01:14:55.880 --> 01:15:00.039
wasn't something that just went away overnight. This was years upon on years and

916
01:15:00.640 --> 01:15:06.640
going you know, to court and
you know, and staying up on all

917
01:15:06.680 --> 01:15:12.760
the facts and going and promoting and
saying, you know, this is why

918
01:15:12.800 --> 01:15:16.039
you shouldn't be for this is you
know, providing pamphlets with you know,

919
01:15:16.119 --> 01:15:19.640
all the information on there. I
think there was even t shirts that were

920
01:15:19.680 --> 01:15:25.359
made, which I wish that they
were still around, and I'm really hoping

921
01:15:25.359 --> 01:15:27.920
that someone might have one, like
in a box, because that'd be really

922
01:15:27.920 --> 01:15:31.279
cool to see. But all of
you know, just being out there and

923
01:15:31.520 --> 01:15:35.720
educating folks and even educating themselves.
You know, there were a lot of

924
01:15:36.039 --> 01:15:43.600
autumn that went to I think Pema
Community College and took classes so they could

925
01:15:43.600 --> 01:15:47.359
better understand what was at hand,
what was at stake, and you know,

926
01:15:47.399 --> 01:15:51.880
wanting to serve how and again figuring
out how they could do that and

927
01:15:53.319 --> 01:15:58.960
also to I think understanding that was
a big part of us understanding what was

928
01:15:59.000 --> 01:16:02.920
presented to them. And thankfully there
were others that had law backgrounds that came

929
01:16:03.000 --> 01:16:06.720
in to help. But again it
led to a lot of people saying,

930
01:16:06.720 --> 01:16:10.439
well, you know what I want
to learn for myself so I can better

931
01:16:10.560 --> 01:16:15.399
serve my community. So that was
a really good, good outcome for that,

932
01:16:15.640 --> 01:16:18.600
but again, you know, it
was a long road to for it

933
01:16:18.720 --> 01:16:25.960
to finally be totally squashed and you
know, not going to happen, but

934
01:16:26.039 --> 01:16:30.359
they kept trying to find different ways
to make it happen. And so again,

935
01:16:30.399 --> 01:16:34.399
really grateful for those people that served, and I really think that was

936
01:16:34.600 --> 01:16:42.920
a big part of activism in my
community and seeing it really unfold and and

937
01:16:43.159 --> 01:16:47.640
form you know with with that group
and you know, and I hope that

938
01:16:48.439 --> 01:16:51.840
our youth see that and say,
hey, you know what you're next to

939
01:16:53.720 --> 01:16:58.399
fill these shoes and make sure that
you know, our our land stays,

940
01:16:58.880 --> 01:17:03.159
stays with us, and you take
care of it. Yes. One thing

941
01:17:03.960 --> 01:17:10.680
that I always pictured and imagined in
my mind when I was listening to the

942
01:17:10.800 --> 01:17:15.960
interviews during you know, while transcribing, was there was this one story that

943
01:17:16.159 --> 01:17:19.239
was told and well, I don't
know if it was in the interview if

944
01:17:19.319 --> 01:17:24.760
you were telling me, but it
was of how there was this big meeting

945
01:17:25.239 --> 01:17:30.159
and then afterward, one of the
guys I believe, got approached by another

946
01:17:30.239 --> 01:17:33.359
individual who I don't know if he
was a lawyer or if it was something

947
01:17:33.399 --> 01:17:38.399
else, but he was kind of
like I believe he was either encouraging or

948
01:17:38.880 --> 01:17:43.159
letting him know that, you know, what was happening, that he was

949
01:17:43.199 --> 01:17:45.960
willing to help them. I don't
know if do you remember that? Was

950
01:17:46.000 --> 01:17:49.600
it a lawyer? Yeah? It
was. And that was the thing too,

951
01:17:49.720 --> 01:17:54.119
is that through these articles that were
published, whether it was you know,

952
01:17:54.239 --> 01:18:00.159
whatever local news outlet, and they
were telling like, Okay, this

953
01:18:00.239 --> 01:18:02.880
is the latest update of what's going
on, and so people, you know,

954
01:18:03.039 --> 01:18:08.399
all of Tucson and surrounding areas were
reading the battle, the fight that

955
01:18:08.439 --> 01:18:13.800
they were taking on. They meaning
my community and those of the defenders of

956
01:18:13.880 --> 01:18:18.439
ot them land rights. And yeah, through doctor Bunny Fontana, his friend

957
01:18:18.600 --> 01:18:24.199
reached out and said, I've been
reading about what's happening in Sanavie and I

958
01:18:24.279 --> 01:18:29.600
want to help. And so then
doctor Fontana brought that individual to one of

959
01:18:29.640 --> 01:18:34.000
those public meetings I think they were
having, and and so then introduced him

960
01:18:34.039 --> 01:18:38.880
to Mike yness Butt and others from
the group, and he was like,

961
01:18:39.000 --> 01:18:42.680
I, you know, I'm here
to help. You know I have I'm

962
01:18:42.680 --> 01:18:48.159
a lawyer, I have experience,
and so what can I do to help

963
01:18:48.319 --> 01:18:53.760
serf in you know, this capacity. So whether it was do you want

964
01:18:53.760 --> 01:18:56.439
me to be your lawyer? Do
you want me to like help you understand

965
01:18:56.640 --> 01:19:00.159
like the legal documents? Like however, I want to be able to to

966
01:19:00.239 --> 01:19:03.039
help. And there was a couple
others too that that did that as well,

967
01:19:03.239 --> 01:19:08.000
and I thought that was something that
was really amazing because then Mike was

968
01:19:08.039 --> 01:19:11.640
like, yes, you know,
please, like we need you know,

969
01:19:11.760 --> 01:19:16.159
folks that understand you know, the
legal jargon and what we can do,

970
01:19:16.640 --> 01:19:21.520
you know, as a people and
how to proceed and everything of that sort.

971
01:19:21.600 --> 01:19:27.159
And so that individual you know,
started to help them every step of

972
01:19:27.159 --> 01:19:31.279
the way with the legal case that
they built and then you know, representing

973
01:19:31.319 --> 01:19:34.560
them and being there, and so
I thought that was, you know,

974
01:19:34.640 --> 01:19:40.119
really amazing. And I think also
too with my my community, you know,

975
01:19:40.199 --> 01:19:45.640
where we're situated, you know,
definitely having those allies and working with

976
01:19:45.760 --> 01:19:51.600
others that are not on them or
they're not native or Indigenous and working together,

977
01:19:53.159 --> 01:19:56.319
and you know, even also to
I know we're talking about land,

978
01:19:56.359 --> 01:20:00.840
but even talking about with water,
and then as to making sure that our

979
01:20:01.359 --> 01:20:06.640
traditional ways are upheld. And I'm
referring to the you'd all brothers, Stuart

980
01:20:06.680 --> 01:20:12.159
and Morris you'd all who are allies
and helped to make sure that we were

981
01:20:12.199 --> 01:20:16.039
able to continue to harvest by that
sorrow fruit in to our national park.

982
01:20:16.159 --> 01:20:21.319
And then Morris you'd all helping to
make sure that the Southerners and Waterwright Settlement

983
01:20:21.359 --> 01:20:27.439
Act was passed. But again having
these allies outside to come and help,

984
01:20:27.600 --> 01:20:30.880
and knowing that what was transpiring,
especially with the land development, was wrong

985
01:20:31.239 --> 01:20:34.600
and saying, you know, they
shouldn't be doing that, they shouldn't be

986
01:20:34.640 --> 01:20:40.159
telling lies, they shouldn't be trying
to go around to all of these different

987
01:20:40.159 --> 01:20:43.399
people to get their input, you
know, and say, oh, well

988
01:20:43.439 --> 01:20:46.159
this tribal leader said okay, you
know, and then have it passed.

989
01:20:46.880 --> 01:20:49.840
And so it just kind of even
dates back to how things were done with

990
01:20:49.920 --> 01:20:55.800
treaties long ago, didn't They'd go
to the tribal leaders and then they would

991
01:20:55.800 --> 01:20:59.600
say no, and then you know, the government or whoever serving for them

992
01:20:59.640 --> 01:21:02.680
to get the treaty signed, and
then they would just find somebody and promise

993
01:21:02.760 --> 01:21:06.800
them riches or what have you for
them to sign. And so it felt

994
01:21:06.840 --> 01:21:11.319
like it was something similar this tactic
of like, oh, well, the

995
01:21:11.479 --> 01:21:17.039
group who should be really consulted are
the Lattes because this is whose land is

996
01:21:17.079 --> 01:21:21.199
going to be leased, and certainly
also to the community with the tribal lands

997
01:21:21.239 --> 01:21:26.560
that are looking to be leased.
But again it was just going to all

998
01:21:26.640 --> 01:21:30.840
of these other people and groups,
not going to the ones that it really

999
01:21:30.880 --> 01:21:36.279
mattered. And it was really interesting
too within that because it was my my

1000
01:21:36.359 --> 01:21:41.600
uncle Mike Rios that found out about
it and he happened to be at a

1001
01:21:41.600 --> 01:21:45.359
community meeting and he was like,
what do you mean this was approved?

1002
01:21:45.039 --> 01:21:49.000
And he was starting to ask questions
and he's like, I didn't know about

1003
01:21:49.000 --> 01:21:54.119
this, and then he went to
my grandma and asked her and she didn't

1004
01:21:54.159 --> 01:21:58.760
know. And then after that it's
it just you know, spread like wildfire

1005
01:21:58.840 --> 01:22:01.840
throughout the community, and everybody started, you know, going to each other's

1006
01:22:01.880 --> 01:22:05.399
houses or calling each other, you
know, and to say did you know

1007
01:22:05.560 --> 01:22:13.159
about this? And so the power
of a community right coming together and informing

1008
01:22:13.199 --> 01:22:16.000
each other and then coming together to
say, hey, we're gonna stop this

1009
01:22:16.119 --> 01:22:24.079
because this isn't right. It kind
of just reflects back on how like earlier

1010
01:22:24.279 --> 01:22:29.399
when're talking about the historical context is
that you're mentioning there's a lot of there

1011
01:22:29.439 --> 01:22:33.239
was a lot of deceit and false
narratives that there a lot of folks were

1012
01:22:33.239 --> 01:22:39.000
coming in and promising one thing but
not but not that was in reality.

1013
01:22:39.680 --> 01:22:45.239
And so it just made me think
on how like earlier, how the farmers

1014
01:22:45.319 --> 01:22:48.720
came in and just used up all
of water and you know, just took

1015
01:22:48.760 --> 01:22:53.159
and took and took, and you
know, you saw the drought and everything

1016
01:22:53.239 --> 01:22:58.840
you saw we're able to keep that
sustainable and then having to find other ways

1017
01:22:58.880 --> 01:23:02.600
and this was it. It's sort
of like we'll just give you whatever and

1018
01:23:02.640 --> 01:23:06.279
then you can take it, but
who knows what have happened, you know,

1019
01:23:06.399 --> 01:23:11.359
once they've came in utilized it,
given the money, and it's just

1020
01:23:11.560 --> 01:23:15.000
probably would have taken off, you
know. So that's where I see the

1021
01:23:15.079 --> 01:23:23.760
really strength in the in the collaborative
efforts of really foundational the activism that happened,

1022
01:23:24.239 --> 01:23:30.199
that impact of stories, like just
because there was no media, right

1023
01:23:30.319 --> 01:23:34.760
there was only like limited amount of
like folks having to know like this is

1024
01:23:34.800 --> 01:23:38.680
going on. Hence this is how
you're going to be impacted, you know.

1025
01:23:39.279 --> 01:23:43.720
And it was like an autumn community
member and autom community members leading these

1026
01:23:44.760 --> 01:23:49.399
these initiatives versus someone else, you
know, the lawyer could easily went by

1027
01:23:49.439 --> 01:23:55.000
and be like, oh yeah,
here's the legal ramifications. But as it's

1028
01:23:55.039 --> 01:24:00.359
like it's autumn community is like us
doing it for ourselves and having that sort

1029
01:24:00.399 --> 01:24:04.600
of mentorship of others who can really
contribute. And I always feel like as

1030
01:24:04.720 --> 01:24:09.760
time goes on, we won't have
to rely on a lot of you know,

1031
01:24:09.840 --> 01:24:14.039
outside sources, because we'll have that
in our communities. We'll have that

1032
01:24:14.199 --> 01:24:18.239
sort of support within our communities because
the amount of people doing that sort of

1033
01:24:18.239 --> 01:24:23.840
work and from those historical context is
to be in the present now, so

1034
01:24:23.880 --> 01:24:28.560
we don't have to always be,
you know, relying on our metagon lawyers

1035
01:24:28.640 --> 01:24:32.039
and stuff. Will have out them
lawyers, you know, and we'll be

1036
01:24:32.079 --> 01:24:36.000
able to fulfill a lot of like
what we try to accomplish as far as

1037
01:24:36.079 --> 01:24:42.279
like protecting our land, water and
everything that we see that is important to

1038
01:24:42.399 --> 01:24:45.239
us. I think, like now, what you mentioned like a couple of

1039
01:24:45.239 --> 01:24:48.399
times some of your presentations, like
the border wall and everything, how that

1040
01:24:48.439 --> 01:24:53.439
separates too. So I think it's
a it's a small part, but it

1041
01:24:53.640 --> 01:25:00.479
expands so much in that and that
sort of like organizing work and find who

1042
01:25:00.960 --> 01:25:04.119
those relatives are, finding the people
getting on the grounds and stuff. So

1043
01:25:04.840 --> 01:25:08.720
I think that's what is really key
to me, is like the stuff that

1044
01:25:08.760 --> 01:25:12.239
I find inspiring. It doesn't matter
how you go about it, you know,

1045
01:25:12.279 --> 01:25:17.000
whether it's politically gathering people, organizing
or voting or doing all these different

1046
01:25:17.000 --> 01:25:21.159
things. There's always that sort of
like initiative to keep going. And that's

1047
01:25:21.159 --> 01:25:25.359
what you're mentioning, like keep going, you know, you'll find your ways

1048
01:25:25.439 --> 01:25:29.920
to it. So I thought those
are just most of the really strong impacts

1049
01:25:29.920 --> 01:25:32.800
that I saw out of it and
just learning more about it. So thank

1050
01:25:32.800 --> 01:25:38.000
you for sharing. I appreciate that, Yeah, of course, and yeah,

1051
01:25:38.119 --> 01:25:42.840
I think you know also too,
there was this pattern throughout all of

1052
01:25:42.880 --> 01:25:46.800
these different events happening in my community
where we'd come together to figure out what

1053
01:25:46.880 --> 01:25:49.840
to do, you know, because
that's what we that's you know, we

1054
01:25:50.000 --> 01:25:53.640
as a people, that's what we
do, that's who we are. You

1055
01:25:53.640 --> 01:26:00.000
know. It's described as communal or
as I refer to it as the relationship

1056
01:26:00.720 --> 01:26:04.960
the relationships that we have with each
other and the importance of you know,

1057
01:26:05.119 --> 01:26:12.279
that consensus that coming together to make
those those decisions, and that's what we

1058
01:26:12.319 --> 01:26:15.199
did throughout time and what we're talking
about specifically, you know, a group

1059
01:26:15.319 --> 01:26:19.039
was formed to tackle this, to
take this on, you know, and

1060
01:26:19.079 --> 01:26:25.600
whoever wanted to join could you know. It's very you know inspiring to learn

1061
01:26:25.680 --> 01:26:30.319
about what happened over time, but
also to how community members from the center

1062
01:26:30.319 --> 01:26:33.920
of your stepped up in different ways. And yeah, certainly also too.

1063
01:26:34.000 --> 01:26:38.760
You know, we had help from
you know, those that weren't at them

1064
01:26:38.920 --> 01:26:45.079
or native or Indigenous, but you
know, certainly led to others wanting to

1065
01:26:45.119 --> 01:26:48.479
further their education and you know,
take a class or pursue a you know,

1066
01:26:48.520 --> 01:26:53.439
a degree, which I think was
really awesome, and even also during

1067
01:26:53.479 --> 01:27:00.720
that time having certain individuals step up
to serve in leadership position, one of

1068
01:27:00.760 --> 01:27:04.560
which is our chairman, the cener
of your district, Austin Nunias. He's

1069
01:27:04.560 --> 01:27:11.199
been in office for as long as
I've been living and always you know,

1070
01:27:11.359 --> 01:27:15.039
wondered about why he ran, you
know, and everything, and it ties

1071
01:27:15.159 --> 01:27:20.279
back to this land proposal, and
so it was really interesting to make those

1072
01:27:20.319 --> 01:27:26.439
connections too, and you know,
figure figure things out of Okay, that's

1073
01:27:26.439 --> 01:27:30.199
why you know so and so is
you know also, but why so and

1074
01:27:30.239 --> 01:27:35.439
so you know ran And during that
election time when that land proposal, that

1075
01:27:35.600 --> 01:27:45.359
was the biggest number of individuals that
had wanted to run for district council and

1076
01:27:45.479 --> 01:27:50.640
also for chair and vice chair.
And it was a way that the defenders

1077
01:27:50.680 --> 01:27:58.000
of lot them land rights were getting
people into office so they could fight back

1078
01:27:58.079 --> 01:28:01.880
on you know, no we don't
want this. So again, interesting time,

1079
01:28:02.079 --> 01:28:06.600
you know, to to be in
Santa Viro when all that transpired.

1080
01:28:08.840 --> 01:28:14.439
Absolutely well, thank you so much
for sharing all about your work. But

1081
01:28:14.680 --> 01:28:20.279
now that you are a newly minted
graduate, what does your focus of work

1082
01:28:20.439 --> 01:28:27.000
look like? Now? I think
for me, you know, I have

1083
01:28:27.119 --> 01:28:33.319
this list of all these different ideas
that I thought of and had conversations,

1084
01:28:33.880 --> 01:28:36.960
you know, with folks about,
and so I just started writing them down

1085
01:28:38.239 --> 01:28:44.399
because there was I started doing that
because I had times where I would supposed

1086
01:28:44.479 --> 01:28:47.479
to be writing and then I start
like, you know, kind of taking

1087
01:28:47.520 --> 01:28:51.760
a turn and focusing on all this
idea you know would be really great as

1088
01:28:51.760 --> 01:28:58.359
a project or this or that,
and my dissertation tear doctor Ron Trasp would

1089
01:28:58.359 --> 01:29:01.039
be like, remember, come back, can you stay focused? There will

1090
01:29:01.039 --> 01:29:05.039
be plenty of time after you're done. So I think now it's going through

1091
01:29:05.079 --> 01:29:11.479
that list and seeking out, you
know, what I want to do.

1092
01:29:11.640 --> 01:29:16.840
And you know, definitely a big
part of it was to do presentations.

1093
01:29:17.359 --> 01:29:19.920
You know, I did some here
and there, but you know, it's

1094
01:29:20.640 --> 01:29:26.079
it's different when you're still working through
it, right, and there's only so

1095
01:29:26.199 --> 01:29:30.520
much you can share at those times. And then now that I'm done and

1096
01:29:30.760 --> 01:29:36.640
you know, able to fully share
what my dissertation research and paper is about

1097
01:29:36.920 --> 01:29:41.920
has been really awesome. You know. I do serve as a speaker for

1098
01:29:42.000 --> 01:29:45.680
Arizona Humanities and they have a program
and so this is my second year with

1099
01:29:45.760 --> 01:29:50.479
them and being able to have folks
reach out and say, hey, yeah,

1100
01:29:50.520 --> 01:29:56.039
you know, I have two different
presentation topics I can I do and

1101
01:29:56.079 --> 01:30:00.159
can do and so it's great whenever
folks reach out and say, you know,

1102
01:30:00.199 --> 01:30:05.520
come talk about your dissertation research.
And so just being able to share

1103
01:30:05.880 --> 01:30:10.439
with what I think like an hour, hour and a half week I you

1104
01:30:10.479 --> 01:30:15.039
know, we have when I do
those presentations is really great and spark some

1105
01:30:15.079 --> 01:30:18.520
really good questions afterwards, and so
definitely continuing to do that. But I

1106
01:30:18.560 --> 01:30:23.960
also want to as much as I
love talking to adults and elders, I

1107
01:30:24.000 --> 01:30:28.399
also want to turn my focus also
to the K through twelve and doing more

1108
01:30:28.479 --> 01:30:33.600
with as I said, our future
leaders and you know, sharing with them

1109
01:30:33.680 --> 01:30:41.039
in different ways about land and water
and you know, the issues and why

1110
01:30:41.039 --> 01:30:44.720
it's important for them to know about
it, and so you know, trying

1111
01:30:44.760 --> 01:30:50.279
to find opportunities or projects or presentations
whatever to do that with them. And

1112
01:30:50.359 --> 01:30:56.720
so I really am you know,
looking to hopefully work with some teachers on

1113
01:30:56.800 --> 01:31:00.960
the nation and then also just like
reaching out to folks and saying, hey,

1114
01:31:01.079 --> 01:31:04.880
you know, I am available for
whatever you need, you know,

1115
01:31:05.039 --> 01:31:13.119
when it comes to the land and
water environment. And so certainly that's something

1116
01:31:13.279 --> 01:31:16.079
I on my list of what I
want to do more of. And I

1117
01:31:16.119 --> 01:31:19.680
think also too, you know,
I do want to get out in the

1118
01:31:19.760 --> 01:31:25.279
community more because before that was another
part to it too. It's just I

1119
01:31:25.359 --> 01:31:28.159
couldn't, you know, and I
was just like, as much as I

1120
01:31:28.199 --> 01:31:30.359
want to go to this event,
I am, you know, on a

1121
01:31:30.439 --> 01:31:34.319
deadline. I'm too tired, Like
you know, I just I'm gonna have

1122
01:31:34.319 --> 01:31:38.840
to wait till next time around,
or you know, maybe another event that's

1123
01:31:38.840 --> 01:31:42.359
similar. So you know, definitely, I think just going out and talking

1124
01:31:42.399 --> 01:31:46.720
with folks and being present is something
that I'm looking forward to doing. And

1125
01:31:47.359 --> 01:31:49.720
you know, not saying, oh
well, I can go for an hour,

1126
01:31:50.119 --> 01:31:54.479
but then really thinking about what I
need to do is really in the

1127
01:31:54.479 --> 01:31:57.800
back of my mind. But fully
going to things and enjoying them and talking

1128
01:31:57.800 --> 01:32:02.640
with folks and seeing what what sparks
from from those conversations, because you know,

1129
01:32:02.680 --> 01:32:06.279
there's so many times there I've just
had like a quick conversation and discussion

1130
01:32:06.319 --> 01:32:10.640
with someone and that sparks this amazing
idea and we end up having this really

1131
01:32:10.680 --> 01:32:15.439
great collaboration. And that's another big
part to it too, is more collaboration.

1132
01:32:15.159 --> 01:32:20.520
For example, Soro National Park and
then also kit Peek National observatory.

1133
01:32:20.720 --> 01:32:28.079
Those are are two that I have
collaborations with and want to continue collaborating with

1134
01:32:28.119 --> 01:32:32.520
them in different ways. Uh,
certainly also to within my classes that I

1135
01:32:32.640 --> 01:32:39.000
teach at down at them Community College, you know, sharing more with land

1136
01:32:39.039 --> 01:32:44.640
and water and hopefully having some events
on campus. And you know, so

1137
01:32:44.720 --> 01:32:46.720
again it's just all these different ideas
and I just need to start going down

1138
01:32:46.760 --> 01:32:54.079
the list and seeing thinking long term
and wanting to definitely achieve all of those,

1139
01:32:54.159 --> 01:33:01.479
but certainly also to I think publishing
and flooring all of what that could

1140
01:33:01.680 --> 01:33:08.199
entail is also something really big for
me that I want to I want to

1141
01:33:08.199 --> 01:33:11.680
do and there has been a couple
people that have reached out and want to

1142
01:33:11.720 --> 01:33:16.239
publish my work, so that's exciting
and you know seeingwhere else where that goes,

1143
01:33:16.279 --> 01:33:21.319
and you know, certainly to you
also presenting at conferences, you know,

1144
01:33:21.560 --> 01:33:25.640
that's a That's one one thing I
really didn't get to do is go

1145
01:33:25.680 --> 01:33:30.359
to a lot of conferences. So
I think now I want to look into

1146
01:33:30.399 --> 01:33:32.960
those and whether it's just attending,
like I said, in mingling and networking

1147
01:33:33.039 --> 01:33:38.840
and you know, getting to talk
with folks, or actually presenting so that

1148
01:33:39.079 --> 01:33:41.359
I know, and that sounds like
a lot, and it is. But

1149
01:33:42.079 --> 01:33:45.039
at the same time though, it's
just you know, all these things I've

1150
01:33:45.039 --> 01:33:49.039
been thinking about it and wanting to
do. Yeah, you definitely have plenty

1151
01:33:49.199 --> 01:33:54.520
of time. I mean you're so, you know, a pretty young person,

1152
01:33:54.840 --> 01:34:00.239
and you've done so much and you
started from the bear essentials to do

1153
01:34:00.319 --> 01:34:05.439
where you're at now. And for
anybody who is interested, you know,

1154
01:34:05.520 --> 01:34:13.359
I was able to watch your one
of your presentations online on the Amorand Foundation

1155
01:34:13.680 --> 01:34:18.319
at amarand that's a M. E. R I n D Foundation on their

1156
01:34:18.359 --> 01:34:26.000
YouTube channel if you're interested and you
want to watch her presentation. It is

1157
01:34:26.119 --> 01:34:31.279
Caretakers of the Land, History of
Land and Water in Sanavir community. And

1158
01:34:32.079 --> 01:34:38.760
just thank you so much for being
here with us and sharing all of your

1159
01:34:38.800 --> 01:34:43.800
work, what you're doing now,
what your future goals are. We absolutely

1160
01:34:43.880 --> 01:34:47.279
appreciate the time that you've taken to
be here with us and to share your

1161
01:34:47.319 --> 01:34:51.560
story with the listeners as well.
And Napoleon, do you have any last

1162
01:34:51.560 --> 01:34:56.720
thoughts? Yeah, just thank you
so much for being a part of this

1163
01:34:56.800 --> 01:35:02.840
conversation. I think it's so beneficial
to our listeners, to me, to

1164
01:35:03.000 --> 01:35:09.880
our team, and just like anybody
in general interested in wanting to know about

1165
01:35:09.960 --> 01:35:13.880
Autumn, just a very small snippet
of who we are. I mean,

1166
01:35:14.800 --> 01:35:16.880
we can always talk about things closed
doors, but that's for us saying.

1167
01:35:18.800 --> 01:35:24.479
So that's the cool part. But
also just like in academia, you know,

1168
01:35:24.560 --> 01:35:29.439
and all these other different ways that
we're being seen, sometimes it is

1169
01:35:29.520 --> 01:35:32.640
lonely being Autumn here on this site, you know, even though there's a

1170
01:35:32.640 --> 01:35:40.800
lot of you of A folks on
our team. But I definitely find that

1171
01:35:41.479 --> 01:35:45.000
it doesn't matter where you are,
there's always someone always listening and wanting to

1172
01:35:45.000 --> 01:35:49.760
know about our communities. So I
thank you again for your contributions. And

1173
01:35:49.840 --> 01:35:54.479
yeah, just just that that it
will live and it will still grow,

1174
01:35:54.520 --> 01:35:57.920
and I know this is probably not
the last time I'll talk. And I

1175
01:35:57.960 --> 01:36:00.560
know you're always about like you're before, because I do that too, like

1176
01:36:01.159 --> 01:36:04.720
oh this is a great opportunity,
and this is another great opportunity, and

1177
01:36:04.800 --> 01:36:08.920
oh there's like this over here too, and they're like whoa, whoa,

1178
01:36:09.000 --> 01:36:11.039
whoa. You know, I was
kind of like my thing there, my

1179
01:36:11.159 --> 01:36:13.319
thesis. It's like, well I
want to talk about this, this,

1180
01:36:13.560 --> 01:36:16.479
this, and they're like no focus, you know, narrowed down. So

1181
01:36:17.520 --> 01:36:20.159
and that's how creative we are.
And that's how strong are. So thank

1182
01:36:20.199 --> 01:36:27.840
you, thank you so much and
sharing that there's always tomorrow. So thank

1183
01:36:27.880 --> 01:36:31.239
you for sharing that because I think
that's so important and those listeners to take

1184
01:36:31.279 --> 01:36:36.960
that as well. There's always tomorrow
and might not academia might not be for

1185
01:36:38.079 --> 01:36:41.000
you, or community college could be
for you. You know, there's always

1186
01:36:41.039 --> 01:36:45.199
tomorrow to plan that and make that
journey. So thank you so much,

1187
01:36:45.600 --> 01:36:49.199
and really quick, just sell.
If somebody didn't want to reach out to

1188
01:36:49.199 --> 01:36:54.840
you to read your dissertation, how
can they do that? You can email

1189
01:36:54.920 --> 01:37:00.239
me. My best email to reach
me is just sell our Soabron at gmail

1190
01:37:00.319 --> 01:37:05.199
dot com. So that's j A
C E L L E R S is

1191
01:37:05.279 --> 01:37:11.359
in sam au b A ZIMBOI E
R A N And it's all one word

1192
01:37:12.079 --> 01:37:15.479
at gmail dot com. And I'm
pretty good at you know, replying pretty

1193
01:37:15.560 --> 01:37:21.000
quickly, and so just reach out
if you want to talk further, if

1194
01:37:21.000 --> 01:37:25.239
you want to copy of my dissertation, uh, you know, if you

1195
01:37:25.239 --> 01:37:29.039
want me to come present what have
you? Uh, you know, I

1196
01:37:29.079 --> 01:37:31.840
want I want to be a resource
for people. I want to be a

1197
01:37:31.920 --> 01:37:35.680
role model for for folks. And
you know, certainly if I can do

1198
01:37:35.720 --> 01:37:40.479
it, you can too, and
I want to, you know, help

1199
01:37:40.520 --> 01:37:44.600
in any way I can. You
know, whether that is sharing my my

1200
01:37:44.720 --> 01:37:48.960
knowledge with an audience that might not
know much about not them history and culture

1201
01:37:49.319 --> 01:37:56.279
or specifically you know, history of
land and water in Santavir, or if

1202
01:37:56.279 --> 01:38:00.760
you want help with you know,
pursuing community college or university. I'm here

1203
01:38:00.800 --> 01:38:09.000
to help and I want our people
to be successful in whatever you know interests

1204
01:38:09.039 --> 01:38:13.760
you. And so if I can
be a helping hand with being a mentor

1205
01:38:14.159 --> 01:38:18.159
or sharing more about my experiences,
reach out, let me know how.

1206
01:38:18.560 --> 01:38:21.840
You know, again I can I
can help you. Thank you so much.

1207
01:38:23.479 --> 01:38:27.760
Did you have any like last shout
outs that you want to give?

1208
01:38:28.279 --> 01:38:31.640
Sure? You know, I want
to shout out to my family for all

1209
01:38:31.760 --> 01:38:38.960
their love and support, my partner
Jesse, our daughter Lydia, and then

1210
01:38:39.000 --> 01:38:45.199
to all of my nieces, so
Bella, Zaviva, Azalea, Layla,

1211
01:38:45.039 --> 01:38:53.680
Amarisa, my other niece Sally,
and my nephew Reyes and my sister Julie,

1212
01:38:54.359 --> 01:38:59.720
brother in law Ken and for again
all their love and support and especially

1213
01:38:59.760 --> 01:39:03.319
my anytime I was just all stressed
out and you know, they'd say something

1214
01:39:03.319 --> 01:39:09.279
and we'd just all start laughing,
and you know, having that laughter,

1215
01:39:09.439 --> 01:39:15.159
that good medicine and you know,
reminding me you know again there's always tomorrow,

1216
01:39:15.239 --> 01:39:18.279
but also too, you know,
to enjoy time with family. So

1217
01:39:18.720 --> 01:39:24.159
yeah, and also to thank you
for having me be here with you all

1218
01:39:24.399 --> 01:39:30.600
and sharing about my journey as a
as a PhD student and outome scholar and

1219
01:39:30.920 --> 01:39:35.439
teacher as well. You know,
I always like to share because again I

1220
01:39:35.479 --> 01:39:40.600
want people to know that they can
do this too, and hopefully you know,

1221
01:39:40.800 --> 01:39:45.960
what we talked about today is and
inspiring to others. Absolutely, thank

1222
01:39:45.000 --> 01:39:49.119
you so much for being here as
well as to my co host Napoleon for

1223
01:39:49.239 --> 01:39:53.840
being here with us as well,
and to all you listeners, thanks once

1224
01:39:53.840 --> 01:39:59.520
again for listening and spread the word. Doctor j is ready to come to

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01:39:59.600 --> 01:40:01.880
your play to speak or you know, read up on her work or check

1226
01:40:01.920 --> 01:40:06.920
out the YouTube video on what she's
done and work so hard for. So

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thank you all for listening in right
here on Don Autumn Young Voices. Thank

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01:40:50.560 --> 01:40:57.920
you listeners for tuning in to today's
episode on Don Autumn Young Voices. Make

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sure to go check out the other
episode. You can find us on Spotify,

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iHeartRadio, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
you listen to your podcast