Ep. 41 Ties to the land

WEBVTT

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For full disclosure. The views and
opinions expressed in this podcast are those are

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the guests in the host. The
content here is for informational purposes only.

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Shah My Masma Autumn. We are
back with a new episode with a local

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here in the Strike Shawn area,
the Tucson area and whose roots lie throughout

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Southern audis Sean. This is Tina
here with you, your host for episode

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forty one, so hopefully you're ready. Sorry to keep you all winning.

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I know it's been a little bit
of a minute since we last released an

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episode, but no worries. We
got a lot of really good folks who

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are going to be coming on and
just a good lineup of discussions and conversations

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with different autumn But we're gonna get
to this conversation and I want to thank

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our guests. Thank you for inviting
me to your home. Deshaun. I'm

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glad that we got to make time
to get together to share your story as

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a young environmentalist exploring traditional autumn.
Judga and I see you got some pups

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in the backyard, which for your
listeners you may hear barking here and there,

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But no worries. It's nice to
have that kind of real life ambience

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in the background sometimes, but in
this case it's all good. So I'm

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gonna let our guests introduce himself,
share a little bit about their background,

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the type of work they do,
and all the good things. Hello,

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how's they been doing. My name
is DeShawn Davis. I am Dona Autum,

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black and Hispanic. My mother's side
of the family comes from Nogalis Tota

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originally and also Nogaalas, Arizona.
That is a Mexican background that I come

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from on that side. And my
father's background. His mother comes from Nebraska

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and his father is from this region
Juet gotcham to sun Arizona. I am

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really honored to be on this podcast
and really excited to share knowledge and share

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things that I have experienced, you
know, in my young life that I've

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lived so far. Ready to just
I guess, expand my reach into this

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community and to just share my story. And how did you get involved with

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Taara National Park and yees So?
I currently work at Saara National Park in

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the Nexshan Park Ranger Internship program.
It is a stepping stone program, I

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guess you could say, to help
you get into this park service agency specifically

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so we're on National Park and it
has helped me to step into that field

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and into that space and help me
to also, you know, experience many

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different things in this park, not
just the current positions that I'm in.

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I've been able to also work in
other fields and other spaces at the park

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and that's been such a great experience, you know, personally for me to

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be able to have that diversity of
work and experience. You know. But

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my main position is resource management,
and I work under the biologists and scientists

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of the park and do a lot
of field work buffalo grass and basis plant

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management, foul grass. We also
do serving, We do frog serving,

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water serving, We do also many
other different things you know, throughout the

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year. We are coming up right
now on some spotted out serving, which

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is going to be a very interesting
experience and also an experience that kind of

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has some cultural ties to it because
you know, owls are considered a taboo

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in a lot of autumn spaces.
So that's something that I've thought about recently

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of how to kind of navigate that
experience, and I've also even you know,

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spoken with people in the autumn community
about how to go about that,

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and so I think I do have
a strategy, and that's something that I

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just want to share getting into what
I currently am doing as I'm getting ready

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to actually share a power point about
this endangered species that I currently have a

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focus on in my work and am
hoping to get more involved in with the

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overall work we're doing with this spotted
out due to the fact that it is

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an endangered I mean threatened animal and
their current population levels are dropping across the

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entire region due to catastrophic wildfires.
So these owls are something that I do

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believe is an important focal point in
this work that we do, and also

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in work across the entire Southwest,
stretching into Colorado, New Mexico, Western

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Texas, Utah, a lot of
Arizona, and then even getting into a

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couple of states south of here in
Mexico, Sonora, which is also part

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of his ancestral autumn lands. So
that is an interesting thing that I think

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about when in regards to this species
because it is centralized within autumn lands ancestral

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autumn lands, but it does go
further than that due to it living in

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mainly sky islands and canyons, so
those do stretch pretty far across this whole

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Southwest region. So that is something
that has been a focus on mine and

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I just wanted to share that I
got into the position on the map now.

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I think by networking. I didn't
know a couple of the people in

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my current position and was able to
work with them and able to show my

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show my knowledge, show my skills, and connect with them prior to applying

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to the position. And I know
that that did help me. Another help

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for getting this current position i'm in
is I did start off on the west

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side of the park in maintenance,
and that was a stepping stone into getting

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me into now resource management work,
and that definitely also helped me get into

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this current position. I used to
work in the city for nonprofit planting trees

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and creating green urban areas in areas
that lacked due to redlining and other historic

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policies that just created a discrimination regarding
the tree cover in certain neighborhoods in the

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Tucson area. And so that was
a really great experience and I really think

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that that helped me just gain these
good communication skills and community skills to work

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with the Tucson community and communities related
to Tucson. I also believe that it

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helped me to build my resume and
to get to help me get this current

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position in the park Service. So
I think that that was also a nice

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a nice help with you know,
being where I currently am. I also

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think that, you know, in
the future, with where I'm going,

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that will it is possible that I
do have to go back and get more

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education in order to pursue my career
further. And that's completely just understandable due

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to the fact that it's kind of
how it works in a lot of environmental

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fields. So that's just something that
I've really been thinking about a lot lately,

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heavy lately with my internship coming to
an end towards the towards the fall

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of this year. So that's something
that I also wanted to share it with

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currently where I'm at. And yeah, so I currently work at soar On

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National Park in the Nextion Park Ranger
Internship program. It is a program,

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a stepping stone program, I guess
you could say, to help you get

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into this Park Service agency specifically,
so we're on National Park and it has

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helped me to step into that field
and into that space and help me to

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also, you know, experience many
different things you know, in this park,

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not just the current positions that I'm
in. I've been able to also

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work in other fields and other spaces
at the park and that's been such a

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great experience, you know, personally
for me to be able to have that

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diversity of work and experience, you
know. But my main position is resource

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management, and I work under the
biologists and scientists of the park and do

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a lot of field work buffalo grass
and basis plant management, foul grass.

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We also do serving, We do
frog serving, water serving, We do

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also many other different things you know, throughout the year. We are coming

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up right now on some spotted out
serving, which is going to be a

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very interesting experience and also an experience
that kind of has some cultural ties to

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it because you know, owls are
considered a taboo in a lot of autumn

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spaces. So that's something that I've
thought about recently of how to kind of

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navigate that experience, and I've also
even you know, spoken with people in

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the autumn community about how to go
about that. And so I think I

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do have a strategy and that's something
that I just want to share getting into

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what I currently am doing, as
I'm getting ready to actually share a PowerPoint

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about this endangered species that I'm currently
I currently have a focus on in my

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work and am hoping to get more
involved in with the overall work we're doing

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with this spotted out due to the
fact that it is an endanger I mean

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threatened animal and their current population levels
are dropping across the entire region due to

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catastrophic wildfires. So these owls are
something that I do believe is an important

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focal point in this work that we
do, and also in work across the

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entire Southwest, stretching into Colorado,
New Mexico, Western Texas, Utah,

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all a lot of Arizona, and
then even getting into a couple of states

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south of here in Mexico, Sonora, which is also part of his ancestral

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autumn lands. So that is an
interesting thing that I think about when in

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regards to this species because it is
centralized within autumn lands ancestral autumn lens,

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but it does go further than that
due to it living and mainly sky islands

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and canyons, so those do stretch
pretty far across this whole Southwest region.

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So that is something that has been
a focus on mine, and I just

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wanted to share that so it sounds
like you're doing your best to navigate between

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cultural beliefs and your professional work,
which for most Native Indigenous folks you hear

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it all the time. It's like
walking into worlds. So what's that journey

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been like for you when learning how
to balance this cross cultural work environment.

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It's very interesting, it's very just
sometimes I even giggle, you know,

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because I see how people you know, who aren't aut them sometimes navigate it.

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And it's not not necessarily that they're
doing anything wrong, but that sometimes

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they go about things differently than I
guess I would do, or someone with

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another person that has an autumn background
in regards to not only our work,

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but how we view our work.
And so that is something that's been very

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interesting for me, and it's helped
me appreciate my heritage and my background and

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the fact that I have this ancestral
connection to this region and that that walks

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with me every day and every minute
of not only my work but my life.

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And so I really, I really
have been able to not only learn

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more about how other people are working
and connecting with this desert, but also

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how I am and how I should
be due to, you know, seeing

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things that I that I consider to
be really important. I guess lessons as

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I've been working in this field for
the past going on a year in March,

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So there have been many lessons actually
that I have learned working in this

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field. And you know, sometimes
those lessons are heavy. Sometimes they're just

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simple little mistakes that not just you
know, I can make, but also

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the people around me that I just
notice and I put in the back of

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my head and I and I just
kind of reflect on maybe when I once

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I clock out or whatnot. But
that's just something that I kind of notice,

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has you know, been an occasional
experience, you know, working in

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this field. And also there are
moments where I have been able to really

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connect with the land due to the
fact that I'm working in these really remote,

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rugged areas that are not really seen
by many people and are just so

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wild. I like to say,
even though these regions, all this land

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that I work in has been caretaken
for since time immemorial, there are there

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is evidence of Qualcum autumn, even
Apache history in these areas that we work

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in. And so it's not that
this land is pure wilderness, but it

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is that this land still has that
essence to it that that some other lands

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don't have anymore due to them being
fractured or destroyed or depleted, you know,

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whether that be their groundwater and like
what we see a lot of our

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lost reparent areas along the Santa Cruz, or whether it be minerals and resources

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which we have across this entire region
historically occurring and still occurring to this day.

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And so it's been interesting to work
in this land that is so not

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only beautiful but special too, you
know, and sacred, and it's all

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sacred, it is what I like
to say. You know, I know

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we have and there are sacred sites, and there are sacred, sacred areas

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that are honored in that are passed
down by families and by stories and stuff.

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But I also believe that all this
line is sacred in that it's been

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such a privilege to be an autumn
young person working in a space where it's

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been lacking. But not only has
it been lacking, but the autumn connection

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to these far out areas has been
lacking. And you know, I can't

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I don't really know the exact reason
for that, but I could have my

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ideas on it, and that is
I guess a whole other, a whole

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other rabbit hole that we could go
down. But what I am saying is

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that, you know, it is
a privilege to be out here and to

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also see more autumn coming out here
and working out here. You know,

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we have had the privilege to work
with groups outside of the Park Service that

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are working in the park, that
have autumn workers, autumn staff doing the

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same things that I do every day
for work, just in a different internship

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or a different group, but still
working in this Sawara National Park region the

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west and east side. So it's
been cool to see more and more of

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that and more of that connection come
back into the park. But me personally,

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you know, being able to you
know, even go up to the

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ring Com Mountains this past summer,
you know, and to be up there

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and to experience that mountain and to
be able to see, you know,

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view the forest and to walk that
area and to walk you know, amongst

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those pine trees and all that beautiful
land, and to experience that, you

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know, that's a really big,
I guess experience that I have taken in

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recently from working here, and that
experience really helped me to understand how special

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this land is. Just to how
how good I felt and the energy that

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I'm mount and also carried, you
know, and that that's a special feeling

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that I can't really find, I
guess everywhere in this land. So that's

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you know, that ties back to
certain areas. Also having the special you

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know, unique energies that I guess
have helped me to connect even more to

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my autumn heema, doag and cultural
overall. I do believe that, you

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know, it's been it's been just
an honor to work out there and stuff.

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Wow, it's good to hear about
the cultural awareness that you have while

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exploring these same lands our ancestors,
the whole gum and autumn traditionally inhabited surrounding

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the Structurwn area the Tucson area.
But I wanted to ask, and we'll

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come back to your work at SOAR, But the first time I met you

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was at an Eco truth event where
you did a presentation on your work.

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So can you explain to the listeners
what exactly is Eco Truths and how you

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got involved in it? Definitely?
Yeah, so so Eco Truths for Indigenous

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Youth is a group of relatives of
indigenous relatives from many nations, many territories,

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and spaces that have all joined into
this one group of amazing people of

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many ages, many backgrounds and form
this group. We have a lot of

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this stuff called like re reconnecting.
One thing that we did recently mention is

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how historically we have been dismembered from
our culture and from our ways and our

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way of life due to colonization,
and so we are remembering that and putting

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that together. And so that's been
something that has been a focal point recently,

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but also in general. It's just
been a very healing experience and a

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very insightful journey that I've been able
to have the privilege to be on with

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Eco Truths. And I have had
so many privileges to be able to go

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to restoration sites, to the Wakidan, which is this river restoration area near

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Saint Avir, and I have had
the privilege to go to the Sarco Mission

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reclamation site, which is a heavy
experience but also an interesting, I guess

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experience to see what is being done
to restore that area to its full potential

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of what could be done after all
the destruction that it has experienced historically from

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mining in that area. So these
things that I've been able to experience and

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physically also on even amazing conversations,
you know, on zoom calls and what.

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All these things together have really helped
me reconnect and kind of also funnel

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back to my indigenous indigenouity. You
know, sometimes when I'm not able to

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connect without you know, when I'm
either working or when I'm when I'm just

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doing things that aren't you know,
specifically correlated to that which we all have

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to do as we walk these two
worlds, you know, this indigenous world

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and then this you know, post
colonial colonial world that we live in.

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And so that's been a beautiful thing
and almost vital because you know, I

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don't really know, I don't really
know if I'd be on the same trajectory

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I guess culturally and mentally if I
didn't have this experience and didn't have this

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group of people to be able to
connect with and share my story with and

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hear from them and you know,
also learn lessons from them rather that be

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things that I really need to work
on, or also just things that are

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that are simple that are just vital
and part of the protocols, you know,

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And that's another that we talked about
recently, protocols of being Indigenous and

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being Indigenous in this current world,
because you know, it's not the same

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experience being indigenous in twenty twenty four
than it was in you know, nineteen

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ninety or even going further back.
You know, it's it's always like,

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I guess, changing navigating this world
for an Indigenous person. And that's just

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my personal opinion, you know.
So that's something that I just attest to

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and that could be viewed differently by
anybody, and I respect that. Well,

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thank you so much for sharing your
experience in the Eco Truths for Indigenous

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Youth and for anyone interested in learning
more. I'll share a link in the

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description for any youth out there who
also may be interested in participating in what

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they call the Eco Truths for Indigenous
Youth Spring Lab twenty twenty four, which

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runs from April to June this year. Okay, so check out that information.

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Check out the link in the description. All right, and moving on,

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well, actually not really moving on, but going back to your work

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in the Park Service. So,
as someone who used to work for the

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National Park Service at Sawar National Park
specifically, I was also in the same

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program that you're currently in, the
Next Generation Ranger program, and I have

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to say I definitely walked away with
a lot of really great skills that I'm

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still applying today in the work that
i do. But you know, working

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for this massive and local government agency, it had its challenges and working within

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the realm of cultural differences. Because
the park Service really is its own culture

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whose job is to preserve any unimpaired
natural and cultural resources within the park boundaries,

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I often found myself torn between cultural
beliefs and values and my professional work

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as a park staff. And looking
back on it now, I think that

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maybe they weren't. At least at
the time, they weren't quite strong in

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cultivating cultural curiosity with the staff.
I think they were great at giving the

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visitors and educational experience in learning all
about the park's natural resources and native Indigenous

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history, but I felt the staff
relied solely on the only brown person or

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Native Indigenous person to be the only
one to talk about our culture, our

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history, etc. Which can be
overwhelming at times. I'm sure maybe you

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felt that same way. But I
hope that since that time they are able

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to begin to develop a more cultural
awareness and adaptability working and creating a stronger

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cross cultural work environment. With their
staff, which to me, I feel

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like means embracing diverse perspectives and showing
respect for cultural variations and nurturing open mindedness.

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So with all that being said,
what are the challenges, if any,

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that you faced in your position and
how are you overcoming them? So,

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yes, that is something that you
know. I feel like this conversation

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could go on for quite a bit
and it's come with like its challenges,

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and that's something that I am open
to sharing because I do believe as an

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Indigenous person that it should be known
that working in any agency that isn't ran

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or I guess controlled by you know, an Indigenous space or group, that

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there are going to be challenges with
it, just like going to university and

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the challenges that come with that.
As being an Indigenous person in that space,

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you know, it's the same thing
and oh it's a different thing,

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but you know it falls into the
same group. And so I do want

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to preface that this is not me
trying to I guess look for the challenges,

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but this is just my truth.
And so what I will share is

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that you know, being Indigenous in
this space, it's come with many interesting

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I guess, challenges and one thing
has been navigating a region, a sacred

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territory, a sacred land that is
now also a site where you know,

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you have people continuously funneling into and
you have people continuously walking and also riding

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horses or you know, riding their
bikes, and you have this continuous I

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guess presence of humans and of I
guess of resource use, you know.

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And so that has been a very
interesting experience for me because due to the

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fact that historically these areas, you
know, they they weren't always so public

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and so so traverse. You know. Obviously, you know, we have

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our historical you know, by Dutch
harvest and you know, chilled and picking

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and all that stuff that came with
these same areas that are now in the

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hands of tomorrow. And so obviously
they've always been walked and always been traversed,

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but it's just in different ways and
in more I guess, more sincere

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and more I guess cultural ways,
instead of more of like now, what

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we have as a recreation and a
tourist activity in some ways, but also

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an educational experience for many people that
come here and want to learn about,

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you know, the souarrows and the
whole desert itself due to the fact that

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this desert is just such an amazing, magical place that catches the eyes of

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many people. And we've seen that
with many people moving here recently and falling

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in love with the desert, you
know what I've heard so many times recently,

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So you know, getting into that, you know, like seeing that

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respect, but different kind of respect
for the desert has been very interesting because

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you know, it's there's a respect
for it by all these people that aren't

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indigenous. But sometimes that respect also
comes with like a assumption that it doesn't

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have a I guess a spirit that
has I guess feelings and needs and also

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things that it doesn't need, and
those things are I guess really important to

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honor, you know. And that's
why traditionally, when you when you're picking

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the fruit, or when you're picking
the children, you know, he's supposed

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to talk to the plant, tell
them what you want, or tell them

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what you're doing out there, and
just having that respect because you're extracting and

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you're going into a land that is
not just yours, but it's like you

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know, it's also the desert,
and it's the home of the four Legates

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and of the plants and the hashun
it's a special place, you know,

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and I think that that isn't honored
as much anymore us to the fact that,

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you know, you don't have an
autumn stronghold. Always acknowledging that and

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reminding people of that, that whole
reverence that is so vital to have for

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this fragile sensitive desert, you know, and not not even speaking on the

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terms of this desert. It's like
what I said right now, the spirit,

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but scientifically, you know, it's
a it's a fragile it's a fragile

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desert. It's this is well known
by Autumn and by many other people,

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by scientists that it's not easily recoverable
when it's you know, affected by human

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use, overuse, whatnot. So
you know, getting into that, you

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know, when I'm when I'm working
in the field, and you know,

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simple things like having to walk amongst
all this plant life and all this desert,

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all this fragile material and having you
know, work around it. It's

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kind of comes with a challenge when
you're autumn and you understand that you need

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to have respect for all all plant
life, all animal life, you know,

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and tread carefully, and it's sometimes
it's hard to tread carefully with the

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work I do and make sure not
to have as much of an impact on

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the land as I possibly can,
you know, but it is going to

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be inevitable when you're removing you know, you're removing biomass from the desert,

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you know, so that comes with
its stuff too, you know, and

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you are having an impact no matter
what. So that's been a struggle too,

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you know, having to keep that
reverence, but also working in this

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field and knowing that, you know, what I am doing has an effect,

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but it also has good effect by
you know, in a sense of

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protecting the sawa or the hashun from
catastrophic fires and unnatural plant material and plant

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cycles growing within that region and affecting
the reproduction of the has shun and other

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sensitive desert flora. Another thing is
just sometimes there's been there's been moments of

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disrespect, you know, and I
have experienced that, you know, and

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I have experienced like blatant, I
guess, disrespect you know, from people

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were kind of coming and going into
this space, not really people who I

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00:29:00.400 --> 00:29:04.720
work with all the time every day, but people who were here for whatever

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reason that they wanted to be here. For and then had another whole idea

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of where they wanted to be,
you know, in sometimes in the national

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park space or in just this environmental
space. And so that's been an interesting

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thing to see, to see people
there have been times where, like I

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feel, my indigenity has been questioned
and and also due to the fact that

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you know, I'm I'm a mixed
person. I'm Afro Indigenous and also Mexican.

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So that has came with its questions
and it's inappropriate assumptions of where my

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place is in my indigenity in this
park service field. And so that's been

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something that I've experienced, you know, working here, and I've also been

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able to find ways to navigate that
and to mitigate the conversations even going there,

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and you know, and so that's
been something that I still currently work

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on to this day. I thankfully
have, I guess people to fall back

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on here, and you know,
I could credit those people, and not

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just in my current field of resource
management, but also outside of there.

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I have an autumn coworker who I
really I really credit them for helping me

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navigate this field and being someone I
could fall back on, and just not

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just for not just for the heavy
stuff, but just to have that autumn

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energy there and that genuinity that sometimes
I don't always get to experience outside of

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00:30:30.440 --> 00:30:33.440
the autumn community of you know,
genuinity is something that I've really really been

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aware of when it comes to working
with autumn but also being with autumn people,

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and it's just a gift that I
guess we all have, and so

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it's just something that I really appreciate
having that, you know, having that,

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you know, even where I am
currently at the park, you know,

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and being able to fall back on
that. But I also have other

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people that I really think are you
know, good people to be around,

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that I work with, and they've
helped me to navigate this whole space of

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the park Service and sometimes navigate the
heaviness that sometimes come with not really sometimes

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understanding certain things, you know,
due to me being an Indigenous person and

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also just in general minority person in
this space that I'm in and noticing things

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that I guess are foreign to me. And so I will just credit those

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people too for being able to be
that. And I think that currently where

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I'm at is I'm just learning that
this is a good opportunity and this is

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a space that I could flourish,
and then I could take a lot from

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and I just have to take sometimes
the heaviness with that and understand that I'm

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not trying to find the wrongs in
people and trying to find the ignorance and

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00:31:51.440 --> 00:31:56.519
I guess and sometimes the experiences of
people here. But I'm also not trying

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to diminish my indigenousity and my understanding
of this region of Juwagatchian Mother Earth,

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of who that is and what that
means, and what that specifically means when

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you come from an autumn background,
and how it ties in with your heema

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dog your reverence for the earth.
Well, thanks for bringing your depth of

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00:32:16.799 --> 00:32:23.119
understanding to the work that you're doing
now in the park. Is good to

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always have a Native and Indigenous representation
in these types of workplaces, and I

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hope that the changing relationships between Native
Americans and the National Park Service is on

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00:32:37.799 --> 00:32:46.400
a path of reconciliation, open mindedness
understanding the extent of these protected lands and

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its deep cultural connections to tribes.
Most national parks through out the US have

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cultural ties to tribes or a local
tribe in the area, and even though

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it can be thought of as something
of the past, we still have those

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00:33:08.200 --> 00:33:15.400
cultural ties and connections, whether it
has to do with traditional harvesting or ceremonial

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purposes or sacred sites that is still
in US as a people. Historical information

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00:33:24.160 --> 00:33:30.519
has been passed down from generation to
generation of these places that are still in

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00:33:30.599 --> 00:33:37.000
existence. So having that understanding that
the strength of those cultural ties still exist

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00:33:37.119 --> 00:33:45.400
in today's generations is definitely something to
think about and maybe even considering giving the

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land back. Just throwing that out
there, all right. So after the

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next Generation Ranger program that you're currently
in, you did mention earlier that it's

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gonna be coming to an end at
the end of this year. So what

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00:34:00.839 --> 00:34:07.160
is your end goal and takeaway from
the work and time that you've spent working

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for Sowar National Park. That is
a really good question, first of all,

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and so the takeaway, I guess
I'll start off with the takeaway.

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So the takeaway from this experience,
you know, and I guess the beginning

400
00:34:22.039 --> 00:34:25.239
of that of this experience that I've
had the privilege to have is when I

401
00:34:25.280 --> 00:34:29.119
first came in here, I really
did think that it was going to be

402
00:34:29.199 --> 00:34:35.960
much harder for me to gain the
respect and I guess position that I currently

403
00:34:36.000 --> 00:34:38.360
have due to the fact that I
mean not having a college education and me

404
00:34:39.000 --> 00:34:45.280
still in the space of having to
figure out, you know, when I'm

405
00:34:45.320 --> 00:34:49.360
going to pursue that or if I'm
going to pursue that, and so to

406
00:34:49.400 --> 00:34:53.159
be able to work in this current
field that I'm in under scientists and bonist

407
00:34:53.239 --> 00:34:58.840
and biologists, it's been a privilege. And I really credit I credit the

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Park and other people for seeing my
potential and honoring that and you know,

409
00:35:06.440 --> 00:35:09.119
putting that into paper, I guess
you could say, by giving me this

410
00:35:09.199 --> 00:35:14.280
position. And so that's something that
I will say, Like it started off

411
00:35:14.320 --> 00:35:16.119
with, you know, I just
I didn't know exactly where I end up,

412
00:35:16.159 --> 00:35:21.039
and I thought that I would end
up having to potentially start school and

413
00:35:21.079 --> 00:35:23.639
then get a position like this and
be able to you know, do it

414
00:35:23.679 --> 00:35:27.400
while being in school. So it's
been a privilege to be able to start

415
00:35:27.440 --> 00:35:30.519
here and still think about school and
really learn where I want to go here.

416
00:35:31.840 --> 00:35:37.719
And so that's been great. And
also another takeaway is that working here,

417
00:35:38.599 --> 00:35:43.719
there's been moments where there will be
so much going on, you know,

418
00:35:43.760 --> 00:35:47.840
and like there will be a conversation
that is just kind of I guess

419
00:35:49.559 --> 00:35:53.920
very much in the space of forgetting
the desert and forgetting where we're working.

420
00:35:54.559 --> 00:35:59.800
And so in those moments, you
know, somethings that I've taken away is

421
00:35:59.800 --> 00:36:05.119
the fact that we're working in this
beautiful desert and region, and so I've

422
00:36:05.159 --> 00:36:07.239
taken away a lot of a lot
of those humble moments, you know,

423
00:36:07.320 --> 00:36:12.360
and those moments I've been able to
have throughout my work here and being able

424
00:36:12.400 --> 00:36:15.559
to just look away for a second
and understand where I'm working and how special

425
00:36:15.599 --> 00:36:20.079
this land is. And so that's
been another big takeaway for me, is

426
00:36:20.159 --> 00:36:23.400
you know, really understanding that even
though there's what I'm doing is really serious

427
00:36:23.440 --> 00:36:29.559
work, and I have to have
that mentality of understanding that this work is

428
00:36:29.599 --> 00:36:34.800
going to be used in the far
future by many people as the Park Service,

429
00:36:34.840 --> 00:36:37.960
you know, or I mean,
as the park continues to study the

430
00:36:38.079 --> 00:36:43.639
Hashan and the other things that we
are currently studying. And so that's something

431
00:36:43.639 --> 00:36:46.079
that I really do honor, you
know, how serious this work is,

432
00:36:46.119 --> 00:36:53.079
but also how we're working in a
place that is a cultural, spiritual,

433
00:36:53.880 --> 00:37:02.519
and just physical physically important space,
you know, throughout this whole you know,

434
00:37:02.559 --> 00:37:07.239
Suaro National Park Region and both the
East and West side, you know,

435
00:37:07.320 --> 00:37:12.519
they both have their their specialties and
their and their landscapes and their flora

436
00:37:12.599 --> 00:37:15.480
and fauna that are just so special
and divine and I and I try to

437
00:37:15.519 --> 00:37:19.920
honor that even in those serious moments, you know. And that's something that

438
00:37:19.960 --> 00:37:24.159
I've taken away. Like I said, another thing that I really have taken

439
00:37:24.199 --> 00:37:29.239
away here is as we work in
this park, or as I work in

440
00:37:29.239 --> 00:37:35.519
this park that has historically had even
more more flora, more fauna, it

441
00:37:35.559 --> 00:37:40.480
has changed over the years due to
colnization and due to settlement in and near

442
00:37:40.519 --> 00:37:45.239
the park. You know, we
used to have Mexican gray wolves, grizzly

443
00:37:45.280 --> 00:37:51.000
bears, and jaguars and the ring
cons and I recently learned the name for

444
00:37:51.119 --> 00:37:53.880
jaguar, which the autumn name is
ash. And so we used to have

445
00:37:53.920 --> 00:37:58.920
the ash in the park and we
currently do not anymore. We do not

446
00:37:59.079 --> 00:38:02.719
have those three species in the midst
of the park boundary or in the park

447
00:38:02.760 --> 00:38:07.039
at all. They did kind of
centralize within the Ringcom Mountain district and that

448
00:38:07.599 --> 00:38:14.239
whole region due to its so it
being very bow diverse and very habitable for

449
00:38:14.320 --> 00:38:17.599
those animals that rely on those forests, but also the desert region, and

450
00:38:17.679 --> 00:38:23.440
so seeing these animals recover besides the
grizzly bear, but seeing these animals recover

451
00:38:24.119 --> 00:38:28.840
near the park and around the park
and starting to make their way and reclaim

452
00:38:28.880 --> 00:38:31.840
their lands and reclaim their territory.
It's just like you know, us indigenous

453
00:38:31.840 --> 00:38:37.440
folks are trying our best to and
sometimes even doing it so by working in

454
00:38:37.480 --> 00:38:40.639
spaces that are a part of our
ancestral lands, which is something that I

455
00:38:40.639 --> 00:38:45.159
guess I currently am trying to do
my best by reclaiming that and seeing these

456
00:38:45.159 --> 00:38:51.239
animals reclaim their lands and do that, It's just been very special to witness

457
00:38:51.320 --> 00:38:54.320
and I think that, you know, working somewhere where there is a potential

458
00:38:54.320 --> 00:38:58.840
for these animals to when day make
their recovery, It's something that I've thought

459
00:38:58.880 --> 00:39:02.360
about with a long term perspective of
working here at Suarrow. But also there's

460
00:39:02.400 --> 00:39:07.599
the other side of things of that, this whole region, this science that

461
00:39:07.639 --> 00:39:10.400
I've learned and that I've taken in
just from working here, also has made

462
00:39:10.400 --> 00:39:15.159
me think about just the entire region
and what needs to be done and the

463
00:39:15.199 --> 00:39:17.719
advocacy that we should and we can
be doing in regards to you know,

464
00:39:19.280 --> 00:39:22.239
many endangerous species in the area,
like the vakita in the Sea of Cortes,

465
00:39:22.280 --> 00:39:28.320
which is ancestral autumn lands. You
know that Vakita is right there in

466
00:39:28.400 --> 00:39:31.519
the northern tip of the Sea of
Cortez, near where the salt the salt

467
00:39:31.519 --> 00:39:37.440
pilgrimagees were near, near where other
sacred sites are. You know, that

468
00:39:37.880 --> 00:39:42.480
animal is tied in with that land, just like at them are. And

469
00:39:42.519 --> 00:39:45.199
so that's another thing I think about, thinking about the jaguars in this whole

470
00:39:45.239 --> 00:39:49.159
region, you know, in a
chew dog, you know, and how

471
00:39:49.199 --> 00:39:54.360
we had jaguars running around your chew
dog for many i mean many recent years.

472
00:39:54.400 --> 00:39:58.280
You know, there's still records of
them out there, and there's still

473
00:39:58.320 --> 00:40:01.079
records of them in the Wachukas and
whatnot. And so that's something that I've

474
00:40:01.119 --> 00:40:05.400
been thinking about too, you know, in regards to also, you know,

475
00:40:05.519 --> 00:40:08.840
respecting the the space I'm in currently
and respecting the work we do,

476
00:40:08.920 --> 00:40:15.400
but also thinking about the fact that
this region, you know, this land

477
00:40:15.440 --> 00:40:21.559
base is huge, just like our
ancestral lands are very very a very big

478
00:40:21.599 --> 00:40:25.119
region, you know, And so
I think that that's something that I want

479
00:40:25.159 --> 00:40:30.360
to honor too in the future,
and I'm hoping I'm able to and wherever

480
00:40:30.400 --> 00:40:32.159
that takes me. You know,
in regards to where I am currently,

481
00:40:32.199 --> 00:40:37.000
you know, I want to be
open to that, just like in regards

482
00:40:37.039 --> 00:40:40.360
to looking at Etho and the journey
that he helps us kind of be on.

483
00:40:40.480 --> 00:40:43.719
You know, it's kind of more
like you have to be open to

484
00:40:43.840 --> 00:40:46.599
change, you have to be open
to what he kind of provides for you.

485
00:40:47.320 --> 00:40:51.000
And so that's something that I've been
trying to honor a lot in what

486
00:40:51.039 --> 00:40:52.760
I currently do and what I'm going
to be doing in the future. And

487
00:40:52.800 --> 00:40:55.880
I even have my I have my
interest in many other places too, you

488
00:40:55.880 --> 00:41:00.239
know, like we have we have
a lot of environment issues around the world

489
00:41:00.360 --> 00:41:04.920
that need to be looked at,
and that's something that I currently I try

490
00:41:04.920 --> 00:41:07.679
to keep my knowledge on, you
know, in regards to like the Amazon,

491
00:41:08.400 --> 00:41:13.159
the northern regions, you know,
the Pacific Northwest, we have you

492
00:41:13.199 --> 00:41:15.880
know, we have many many places
that need that need work, that need

493
00:41:15.920 --> 00:41:22.039
indigenity, that need that need that
presence again to help restore that, you

494
00:41:22.079 --> 00:41:25.920
know, restore the balances that are
being lost around the whole world, you

495
00:41:25.920 --> 00:41:29.880
know. And so so that's something
that I've also thought about, you know,

496
00:41:29.920 --> 00:41:32.679
And that's kind of getting into the
bigger picture of things. But sometimes

497
00:41:32.719 --> 00:41:35.760
you know, that's kind of where
we have to go and things, you

498
00:41:35.800 --> 00:41:40.400
know, and we can't just limit
ourselves to one area or one space in

499
00:41:40.440 --> 00:41:45.519
this current world that we're in,
in this current this current time. So

500
00:41:45.599 --> 00:41:50.880
yeah, it's something that I thought
about too. And yeah, Stopple,

501
00:41:51.880 --> 00:42:00.239
amazing storytelling of your personal and work
related experiences are absolutely inspiring. Thanks for

502
00:42:00.280 --> 00:42:07.000
being a steward of the land and
also talking about the cultural ties to the

503
00:42:07.119 --> 00:42:12.639
land. I feel like that's very
important to know and to share. So

504
00:42:13.039 --> 00:42:19.199
I'll ask one last question before we
wrap up this interview. What advice do

505
00:42:19.320 --> 00:42:24.599
you have for any autumn or native
individual going into the National Park Service?

506
00:42:25.119 --> 00:42:30.360
What kind of advice would you give
that individual to help them be prepared for

507
00:42:30.679 --> 00:42:37.320
the challenges but also embrace the good
things the benefits of working in that kind

508
00:42:37.360 --> 00:42:43.960
of workplace. So yeah, that's
a good question too, And I guess

509
00:42:44.159 --> 00:42:47.679
advice that I could give for that
and just some tips is that to always

510
00:42:47.840 --> 00:42:52.119
know your roots when you walk in
these spaces, to when you walk not

511
00:42:52.239 --> 00:42:57.039
only in the midst of your coworkers
and in the I guess the visitor centers

512
00:42:57.079 --> 00:42:59.639
and on the little guided hikes that
you're in, but also when you're walking

513
00:42:59.639 --> 00:43:00.960
in the field, know your roots, know the land that you're on,

514
00:43:01.400 --> 00:43:05.719
and know that it is still sacred, even if it is in the hands

515
00:43:06.320 --> 00:43:10.519
of a major agency or in the
hands of a someone that you know you

516
00:43:10.559 --> 00:43:14.159
may not have cultural ties to,
or a group that you may not have

517
00:43:14.199 --> 00:43:21.280
cultural ties to. Regarding your ancestral
ancestral heritage. That's one tip I could

518
00:43:21.280 --> 00:43:25.639
give you. And also another tip
is to be secure in yourself, which

519
00:43:25.719 --> 00:43:30.000
kind of correlates back to the first
one, but I say be secure in

520
00:43:30.039 --> 00:43:34.599
yourself in regards to if people try
to challenge you, you sometimes need to

521
00:43:34.679 --> 00:43:37.239
challenge them back, you know,
and you need to stand on your ground

522
00:43:37.280 --> 00:43:42.320
and your indigenouity and remind them that
they are working with somebody that does know

523
00:43:42.440 --> 00:43:45.840
things about this place, and those
things that they know may not be the

524
00:43:45.880 --> 00:43:50.079
same as a scientific knowledge that that
person that is challenging you has. It

525
00:43:50.119 --> 00:43:52.400
may be different, it may be
completely different, but it is still valid.

526
00:43:52.480 --> 00:43:58.360
It is ancestral knowledge, and that
knowledge is unreplaceable, it can't be

527
00:43:58.440 --> 00:44:01.679
replicated. And be honored by knowing
that and you know, and you know

528
00:44:01.760 --> 00:44:07.480
and know that that is an honor
to have. And don't don't let people

529
00:44:07.480 --> 00:44:09.880
try to, I guess, like
downplay it because in regards to like talking

530
00:44:09.880 --> 00:44:15.679
about like creation stories, there are
so many conflicts regarding how valid those are,

531
00:44:15.719 --> 00:44:17.840
you know, and that's the thing
that we you will run into,

532
00:44:19.000 --> 00:44:22.639
you know, in the archaeology environmental
field in regards to the truth to those

533
00:44:22.679 --> 00:44:27.000
things, and just like and that
goes outside of creation stories, that ties

534
00:44:27.039 --> 00:44:30.599
back into with so much ancestral knowledge
that it's sometimes tested, you know,

535
00:44:30.679 --> 00:44:32.280
and so you need to stand on
your ground with that, you know,

536
00:44:32.320 --> 00:44:36.639
with like just reminding them those little
things, you know, of what these

537
00:44:36.679 --> 00:44:40.920
plants and what these animals mean to
you culturally, because like what Tina said

538
00:44:40.960 --> 00:44:45.559
earlier, you know, it's good
for them to know like where they're working

539
00:44:45.599 --> 00:44:50.880
and what they're working with in regards
to not just the people, like the

540
00:44:50.920 --> 00:44:55.079
ancestral people like the autumn or wherever
these ancestral lands tie that you'll be working

541
00:44:55.119 --> 00:45:00.599
in, but also the plants and
the flora and the fauna and them mountains

542
00:45:00.639 --> 00:45:04.079
and the hills and all the stories
like going with that. You know,

543
00:45:04.159 --> 00:45:07.679
if you're open to sharing that,
and if you're in a space where your

544
00:45:07.719 --> 00:45:12.760
coworkers respect that, you know,
share what you feel comfortable with and just

545
00:45:12.840 --> 00:45:15.639
remind them of what that is.
And the last thing I'll share with you

546
00:45:15.760 --> 00:45:21.199
is just to have moments of indagen
aity, I guess you could say,

547
00:45:21.239 --> 00:45:25.360
and that means like going back to
connect with that land in a more exclusive

548
00:45:25.679 --> 00:45:30.400
and in subtle way, you know, and not having to always include the

549
00:45:30.440 --> 00:45:35.440
people in your space and that connection. I think that's so vital because sometimes

550
00:45:35.840 --> 00:45:38.639
there are moments where I really feel
the need to go and connect with the

551
00:45:38.719 --> 00:45:43.559
land after you know, a long
week of work in the land. Funny

552
00:45:43.639 --> 00:45:46.360
enough in that same land, but
go connect with a part of it alone,

553
00:45:46.440 --> 00:45:50.360
you know, and really relearn the
land again, you know, if

554
00:45:50.400 --> 00:45:53.199
you feel like you were disconnected from
it or like the work that you do

555
00:45:53.280 --> 00:45:58.079
has conflicted with that connection. That's
like the last thing I'll share in regards

556
00:45:58.079 --> 00:46:01.280
to tips for that. Yeah,
last comments would be you know, I

557
00:46:01.360 --> 00:46:05.679
just want to give a shout out
to you know, my corecorat Sean and

558
00:46:05.760 --> 00:46:08.159
all my good friends at work,
the people I could fall back on in

559
00:46:08.199 --> 00:46:13.679
that space, but also a shout
out to the people outside of my current

560
00:46:13.760 --> 00:46:16.679
workspace that I'm able to connect with
and my friends that I'm able to share

561
00:46:17.119 --> 00:46:22.119
share my struggles and share my highs
of work and be able to have them

562
00:46:22.199 --> 00:46:27.280
open ears sometimes, you know,
to have someone listening in it's really important.

563
00:46:27.320 --> 00:46:30.840
I really respect that, and I
just also want to give a shout

564
00:46:30.880 --> 00:46:37.320
out to the Nextion program for bringing
in more of that brown and Indigenous space

565
00:46:37.599 --> 00:46:42.679
into this current to our national park
space that they have kind of helped commit

566
00:46:42.719 --> 00:46:45.559
to and help create that. I
guess that that entry away for that.

567
00:46:46.440 --> 00:46:52.639
Thank you so much, Toshan for
being a guest on on them Young Voices,

568
00:46:53.360 --> 00:47:00.159
for dropping some knowledge and talking about
your journey as a young person working

569
00:47:00.440 --> 00:47:05.159
in the stem fields. Best of
luck to you and your next journey in

570
00:47:05.400 --> 00:47:10.320
work, in life, and in
culture. Also thanks to you the listener

571
00:47:10.400 --> 00:47:15.440
for tuning into episode forty one.
If you would like to learn more about

572
00:47:15.480 --> 00:47:21.480
Deshaun and his work in the Equal
Truths for Indigenous Youth or in the Next

573
00:47:21.519 --> 00:47:25.599
Gen Program as a National Park,
you can find that information in the episode

574
00:47:25.639 --> 00:47:31.559
description. Thanks for listening to than
Autum Young Voices podcast.