Ep. 44 Justice for Raymond Mattia Sr. (baht)

WEBVTT

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For full disclosure. The information discussed
in this podcast is based on the views

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and experiences of the guests and the
hosts. The content here is for general

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educational purposes only. Content warning.
The following contains discussions surrounding experiences with Border

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patrol and graphic descriptions of violence and
even death that may be triggering or traumatizing

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to some audiences. Please take care
while listening. On the night of May

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eighteenth, twenty twenty three, down
Autum Police Department responded to calls of gunshots

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fired within or around the community of
adi Juk, also known as Manager's Damn

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Village on the Autumn Nation. During
the dispatch call, a Autumn dispatcher is

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heard requesting assistance from the US Border
Patrol Tucson Sector for Border Patrol agents to

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help respond to an end quote gunshots
fired phone call. I first learned about

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the tragic killing of Raymond Mattia Senior
bat from the news and other media outlets

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and have since then closely followed this
story. This fatal loss of a well

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known individual who was an involved community
member in the village of Adijuk or Manager's

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Stem was another devastating awakening for many. Another tribal member killed at the hands

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of border patrol agents, another injustice
blamed on the victim, Another autumn life

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cut short in relation into an incident
with a US Border Patrol agent. The

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more I dug deeper into researching articles
of past killings and incidentss with border agents

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that involved tribal members, the more
I saw the lack of accountability, the

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lack of response and support for tribal
members whose families have been heavily affected by

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their own personal experiences with border patrol
agents, and the injustices that have become

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so normalized that when an incident happens, regardless of how big or small,

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oftentimes there's talk amongst community members,
but never really no justice served, no

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peace of mind for autom who are
affected. Having my own personal experiences,

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I know what happens when you get
pulled over by border agents. Either you're

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met with guns strong that quickly escalates
to demands and questions of who you are,

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where you're going, where you're coming
from, whose vehicle are you driving,

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where do you live, why are
you driving on this road? Or

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you get it easy, no guns, polite attitudes, and then you're let

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on your way. You never know
what you're going to get when you're faced

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with Border Patrol. And as I
began to dig deeper into the incident with

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Raymond Mattia, I came across the
video that also included a dispatch phone call

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between TOPD and the US Border Patrol. The dispatch phone call between Thaw and

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the police Department and the US Border
Patrol Tucson Sector, which I watched from

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the YouTube video that was put out
by the Intercept, was at first pretty

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confusing. I guess I was expecting
for them to already know who they were

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looking for and mention Raymond's name,
but none of that was to be true.

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In fact, the dispatch phone call
instead described an incident involving an ex

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girlfriend and boyfriend along with the ex
girlfriend's mom, who they say were both

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shot the day before, and that
there was a restraining order against the individual.

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People were hearing gunshots being fired,
so everyone was calling in to check

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on the women since he does own
a gun, and that the gunshots were

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heard coming from the west side of
the rec center. Another part of the

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dispatch phone call that was confusing to
me was the part where don Auton Police

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Department dispatcher says in quote, yeah, everybody said they report they hurt too.

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Nobody can pinpoint where it came from. They are coming from the west

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side. Listening to that dispatch phone
call and the exchange of information between TOPD

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dispatcher and the US Border Patrol twoson
sector dispatcher, it wasn't very detailed and

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it lacked direction, which I understand. I get maybe they get a lot

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of phone calls and there's just bits
and pieces of information that they get,

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so once officers or agents arrive,
it's up to them to kind of pretty

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much just piece everything together. But
I felt like that also was a key

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part of why things ended up the
way that they did with Raymond. They

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didn't really have a solid way of
going about this situation. Raymond Mattia Senior

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but was shot multiple times and killed
with excessive and deadly forced by US Border

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Patrol agents outside his home in Ardijuc, also known as Manager's Dam, on

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the Thauna Autumn Nation, on May
eighteen, twenty twenty three, just a

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day after his birthday. Raymond was
born May seventeenth, nineteen sixty five.

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He was fifty eight years old.
The Thauna Autham nation is vast and very

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rule tribal police force relies heavily on
the help from Border Patrol agents, who

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have also taken on a bigger role
in patrolling tribal lands that oftentimes overshadows the

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presence of tribal police. The family
of Raymond Mattia Senior Bot is calling on

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both the Thauna Autumn Police Department and
Border Patrol agents to take accountability for their

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role in the death of Raymond.
Coming up this week on Friday May seventeenth,

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at ten thirty a m. Their
way be a press conference at the

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Tucson Federal Courthouse. If you would
like to go out and support the family,

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please meet at the fountain on the
west side of the courthouse complex.

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We are now going to be getting
into the interview hosted by Tina and co

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hosted by Brie, who sat down
with two close family members of Raymond to

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speak on behalf of the family and
on behalf of their uncle ray to share

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the truth of this unfortunate incident.
Please take care while listening. My name

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is Evan Navarrees and I'm Raymond Mattia's
niece. My mom is in at Matia,

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his older sister. I was born
in Aha Arizona, grew up some

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in managers Dam or Audichuk and lived
in Salis for a while, then moved

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down to Juson when I was twelve
years old. Looking back on Raymond's life,

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what was life like for him?
Growing up? He lived on in

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Ajo Arizona. He would go spend
summers in Autichuk and with his other siblings,

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and he ran around just comfortable.
He knew where he lived and the

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people who lived around him, and
a lot of people knew him as he

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was growing up. So, growing
up on the nation on the res,

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going out to our living and visiting
Manager's Dam, how normal is it to

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see a border patrol in the area, even them going in searching around the

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village community. Growing up, I
remember them being stopped on the side of

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the road a lot of times.
If we were traveling to the store,

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we would get stopped sometimes and asked
for identification and where we were going.

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When I grew older and had my
own family, we would go visit and

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go out and have picnics in the
washes, and we'd be approached by water

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patrol. As time went on,
it got more and more invasive. They

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put video surveillance facing the village where
the border is like going into the village

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rather than placing it behind the village
where the border actually is. So I

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felt like they were monitoring us and
policing us. Is it one of the

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integrated fixed towers in that area?
Yes, Oh, okay. Growing up

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with all of this around you,
you know, with the border patrol and

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everything, did your family ever talk
to you about it or give you any

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stories of things that happened to them
or anything like that. Yeah, we

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all have stories or interactions with border
patrol, but it was kind of just

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normal, you know. We would
just say Okay, that happened and then

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move on with your life. And
yeah, that's just was a way of

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life dealing with him. Hi.
My name is Alicia and I'm Raymond Mattia's

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niece. I kind of want to
give the listeners an opportunity to really learn,

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like, what was it like prior
to what it is today for you

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as an individual? What were the
changes and the impacts? When did it

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start impacting your life? Well,
I grew up down there and managers,

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and you know, I think most
community members who lived down there, who

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grew up down there have had experiences
or altercations with the border patrol. I

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myself was driving home one day and
the Border patrol had stopped me. Was

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one Border patrol, and they had
had asked me to step out of my

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car. So I stepped out of
my car, and then he started searching

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all over my car, opened the
trunk, just everywhere, and then he

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had told me that he had smelled
where marijuana, which I didn't have marijuana

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in my car. And I think
this was after when I had already moved

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into Tucson and then I was coming
home for one weekend or something like that.

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So he said, you know,
your car smells like Maria wanted heavily,

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So I'm going to call back up. He called back up, the

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backup came, they searched my car
more, and I was there for like

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over an hour with them searching my
car right in the middle of the village.

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I think everyone maybe has had an
experience like that, just like I

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have, and like Yvonne had said, you know, I think everyone just

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kind of got used to it.
They just kind of let it happen and

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say, well, this, I
guess this is part of the routine,

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this is life living down here.
Everyone has had those experiences, but nobody

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really speaks up about it. Nobody
thinks of it as you know, we

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shouldn't be living like this. I
don't know if they think it's not a

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bigger issue, but it is a
bigger issue because we shouldn't be treated like

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that because that's our community and we
live there, and they're guests on our

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nation, and they're there for one
thing, and they're there for, you

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know, to patrol the border,
and you know, they're not watching us

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the community. They're supposed to be
watching the border and they're supposed to be

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watching people are who are crossing the
border. For me, I feel like

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there sometimes were after us for the
wrong reasons, and we're the wrong people

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that they were going after, which
was the community members. What is one

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memory that you have going back to
when times were more simpler, when it

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wasn't so militarized. Do you have
a fond memory of those times? No.

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I think they were always part of
my childhood growing up down there.

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They were always around, always,
you know, m hmmm, they were

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always just there. It's so normalized
their presence and what they do. And

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I feel like if there was a
resource for us aught them from the nation,

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whether it's creating a program for helping
us to deal with these issues and

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how to confront them, how to
face them, how to move forward from

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them. I think that will be
something that should be suggested. That's something

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that I've always mentioned or talked about, if we had some kind of resource

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for us to deal with the trauma, to deal with these types of experiences

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or feel validated by what we're all
dealing with and going through. I feel

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like something like that would be super
helpful. But going back to the day

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of Raymond's passing, Yeavon, how
did that day start for you? It

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was a normal day here in Tucson, and I was getting ready for bed

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that evening and my mom called me
and said they're shooting at ray and she

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was hysterical. I could barely understand
her. And then she hung up,

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and I guess she was calling my
other siblings because she didn't know what to

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do. And it was late and
it was raining that night, so I

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know my sister Lisia and I wanted
to go down there, but we had

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to wait till the next morning.
And we drove down there, and I

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just couldn't believe it. I didn't
want to believe it, even though I

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saw where he died and where it
all happened. And I didn't want to

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believe it was hit. I felt
like, this is a mistake. He's

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gonna come out of the hospital or
something. You know, it's very traumatizing.

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Your mom, you said she was
there. She was right next door

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in the house. She lives right
next to him. Yes, and she

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heard everything. Did she go outside
or did she just stay inside and wait?

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She saw all the Border Patrol vehicles
coming into her yard, and so

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she did go outside and she tried
to figure out what was going on,

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you know, where they were going. And because they were all in our

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family compound, I can't imagine that
whether it's your mom or your brother or

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your family member. And there are
a lot of autom that just feel they

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have no justice, they have no
peace. But I'm glad that folks are

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talking about it, and y'all are
sharing your story anywhere you can with the

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great wider community. I think something
like this, especially because of what was

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put out there. I think this
is the first time that they actually released

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some video footage of what had happened. And even for me, it took

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some time. I knew it was
out there, but I wasn't gonna watch

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it right away neither. It's a
lot, it's heavy. You have to

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prepare yourself mentally and emotionally to be
ready to talk about it or learn about

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it. But during that time,
also with your mom, how is she

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doing? It was very traumatizing for
her. She was dealing with panic attacks

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and she still is dealing with the
loss and what she heard and what she

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saw, and it's very hard for
her, but she's doing what she needs

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to do to try and get his
story out there too. When I found

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out I wasn't home, I had
like several miscalls from my mom and when

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I did call her back, she
was hysterical. I couldn't really make out

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what she was saying. So she
kept saying border patrol, border patrol on

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Gray. And then I had told
her called Donald the police department. Are

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they there? Do you see anybody
there? She said, no, it's

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just all a border patrol. So
I told her call TOPD and tell them

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that they're all going into your yard
because down there in managers, border patrol

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are not supposed to enter your yard. So she called Donald the police department,

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and after that, I'm not quite
sure what happened but I called his

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ex wife and I told her.
My mom said, there's a lot of

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Border patrol present in al Grey's house
and we don't know what's going on.

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So I think she started calling around
and then I heard from her and that's

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when that he was shot and I'm
sorry, and then that's when we are

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then he was possibly dead. So
I called my mom back. My mom

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is still hysterical, and then that's
when just like the whole family started calling

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each other trying to figure out what
was going on. That's when I called

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me Yupahn. I called my brother
and I told them we should we drive

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down there tonight, and then I
couldn't, so we did not. All

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decided to drive out there first thing
in the morning. Kind of kept communication

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with my mom that night. She
said there was just like tons of poor

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patrols, like twenty Border Patrol cars
and the FBI and then all these different

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agents. It's up there, and
my mom said that she was just her

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His children and two other close friends
were out there near where the scene the

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crime scene happened, and they sat
out there and they saw his body out

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there, just lying on their ground. Nobody was confirming if he was dead.

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Or not, and and it wasn't
until later until somebody comfort that he

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passed away, and they just kept
him there till he really early in the

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morning, maybe like three o'clock.
They weren't letting anybody out there, so

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you just lied out there until they
came. He picked him up, his

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picked up his body. So it's
really traumatizing. By myself, I try

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not to think about that day or
that night, and obviously it's still traumatizing

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for us to think about it now. And even going down to managers,

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it's not the same. It's not
the same because my alcar would always come

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around or we would go visit him, he would go hiking because and he

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was always part of part of whatever
we did down there. So him not

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being there, it's it's a huge
empty space and we missed him a lot.

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I mean, the holidays was hard
for me. It's just really hard

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going down there to managers now,
I feel different. My uncle Ray was

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also part of the community Council with
me. Him and I were both representatives,

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and he taught me a lot.
He taught me a lot how the

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meetings are conducted and different things.
And I was getting really close to him

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just because I was part of the
council and he was already down there,

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so he was trying to teach me
those ways. And he had a lot

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of respect for the people and really
care for everyone down there, and he

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he was really trying to make change. He was trying to make sure everybody,

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you know, he was taken care
of. I think my community lost

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a really good person, really cared
for everyone. Thank you so much for

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sharing. I know it's not easy, and I appreciate you being open to

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this conversation and sharing your experiences.
I know it's going to help a lot

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of people, a lot of aunt
them who have endured the same pain and

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experiences with this situation. But I
think this one, for sure, because

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it's so recent and it revealed something
more than what had passed aught them who've

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been killed by Bordo Pache. This
one is more intense because it reveals a

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lot more people can actually see what
happened that night, to really see what

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it's really going on. And I'm
glad that you both have been open to

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sharing, and I'm glad to hear
about the good things about what he has

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been doing, what kind of person
that he was. There's just not enough

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set, I feel like of what
he really truly did, I mean,

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there's some things that happen said,
but to really see or know what he

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did for his community, the things
that he was a part of, what

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he taught you, what he was
teaching the younger generation and the younger people,

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how much he cared for his people, and for him to pass so

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tragically, it's just not fair.
But during that time also, I know

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that it is pretty traumatic. How
are you both dealing with the trauma?

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I think the only thing for us
to do is try and get his story

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out there. Try and because like
at least Hea said, you know,

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he was always about the community.
He saw injustices that were going on,

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and he was not afraid to talk
about them. And I feel like this

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is just carrying on his legacy because
I know if he were around and this

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happened to somebody else, I know
he wouldn't standford. I know he would

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speak up about it and want things
to change. And that's what we want

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to and we feel like, I
know he was taken away, but he's

249
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still fighting even after his death.
And he didn't die for nothing. So

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00:23:47.200 --> 00:23:52.759
after that night with Border Patrol and
TPD, I mean when I watched the

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video, there was like it was
unclear. It was pretty obvious that it

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00:23:56.799 --> 00:24:02.519
was just unclear and they didn't know
what was what and where do you even

253
00:24:02.599 --> 00:24:07.359
go? It was all like they
kind of just guessed and went in a

254
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direction. I guess what was dawn
Athum police departments? Where were they at

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if did they eventually show up?
First, I want to say that we

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always knew my uncle was innocent,
like before they came out with the video

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or before Border Patrol came out with
their statement. We knew that him being

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shot was wrong because he's not the
kind of person who would cause any kind

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00:24:29.319 --> 00:24:32.920
of trouble for that force to come
at him in that way. And we

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know Border Patrol agents are the one
that shot him. But COPD has to

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take some accountability for what happened because
they failed in protecting one of our tribal

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members. So what we have gathered
from the video because we were shown by

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OPR, which is Office of Professional
Responsibility, who are with Border Patrol.

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They provided us the same edited video
that everyone else was shown, so we

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saw the name that was redacted,
the officer's face were blurred. We didn't

266
00:25:04.160 --> 00:25:08.000
get a lot of information from that
video, and so what what we gather

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is that there was a done Notthum
Police Department responding to a nine to one

268
00:25:11.759 --> 00:25:17.680
one call that was not recorded because
I guess thrown note the police department does

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not record their dispatch calls or nine
one one calls. The toped officer was

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responding two shots fired in the village. But what we do have recorded is

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when the thronot the police department's dispatch
calls Border Patrol for backup, and she

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herself says that she doesn't know where
the shots are coming from. We don't

273
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understand why they went straight to Maryamon
and Mattia's house. We don't understand why

274
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the thune Othum Police Department officer didn't
go investigate or ask any questions or verify

275
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where the shots were coming from.
Straight away, he called Border Patrol for

276
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backup, and that's when at least
ten Border Patrol agents came to back him

277
00:25:57.720 --> 00:26:03.880
up. At the point, the
topdios for Sert lost control. He had

278
00:26:03.920 --> 00:26:08.400
no control over the situation. There
are names redacted. They never say that

279
00:26:08.440 --> 00:26:12.039
they're going after Raymond Muttia. We
don't understand why they redacted his name.

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We did try to ask another office
that we met with, and they said,

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yes, we saw the unedited video
and it did say Raymond Mitia,

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but I can't say for sure because
I didn't hear it myself. Yeah,

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they came out guns drawn, as
if walking into a war zone. There's

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family homes in that same proximity,
and so when one of the officers says

285
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there's something in the bushes that could
have been a child, and he could

286
00:26:37.960 --> 00:26:41.279
have easily shot a child at that
point. When they went up to my

287
00:26:41.359 --> 00:26:45.960
uncle Ray's house, they didn't see
if anybody else was inside the home.

288
00:26:47.799 --> 00:26:51.799
They didn't try to de escalate with
voice commands at all. They kind of

289
00:26:51.839 --> 00:26:56.680
just everyone started shouting at him,
and when they told him to take his

290
00:26:56.720 --> 00:27:00.359
hand out his pocket, he took
it out to the right and not toward

291
00:27:00.599 --> 00:27:04.359
the officers. So when they say
they felt it was there was danger,

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I don't understand or see how.
I think they're just trying to cover up

293
00:27:11.000 --> 00:27:15.440
what they did. And the fact
that they shot at him that many times

294
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and shot him in his body that
many times, it's excessive deadly force.

295
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So I don't understand why they were
not prosecuted either. And thank God that

296
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his kids were not there. With
him in his home because they would have

297
00:27:30.559 --> 00:27:34.480
been shot at two because bullets went
through his wall into his home. And

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like you said, there should be
some kind of program, you know,

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to help with this oppression that we
are facing. But I think TOPD calling

300
00:27:45.160 --> 00:27:51.079
Border Patrol for backup now is moving
in the opposite direction, Like how are

301
00:27:51.119 --> 00:27:56.240
they giving them the right to shoot
at our people when they're supposed to be

302
00:27:56.319 --> 00:28:00.640
the ones handling civilians in the situations
going on there? But they refused to

303
00:28:00.680 --> 00:28:07.039
take responsibility during all that. The
detective, I believe the one that you

304
00:28:08.160 --> 00:28:11.440
he was working with you a or
was he just like a contact person that

305
00:28:11.480 --> 00:28:15.759
you Lieutenant Daily. He was there
that night after it all happened, and

306
00:28:15.880 --> 00:28:21.039
he was in communication with my mom
for a while. But after they met

307
00:28:21.039 --> 00:28:25.759
with us because when they showed us
the video, it was OPR TOPD detectives

308
00:28:25.839 --> 00:28:30.039
and FBI agents. So after that, we haven't heard anything from them,

309
00:28:30.119 --> 00:28:33.559
and we've tried reaching out to them, but no one is responding. How

310
00:28:33.559 --> 00:28:37.839
long has that been now, Yeah, that was June. I think it

311
00:28:37.880 --> 00:28:45.079
was in June. Wow, that's
a long whole mean we're almost there a

312
00:28:45.200 --> 00:28:51.440
year pretty soon. And then the
US Attorney's office wanted to meet with us

313
00:28:51.480 --> 00:28:59.000
as well. They had FBI representative, US attorney, representative, liaison for

314
00:28:59.240 --> 00:29:03.519
tribal government and US government, but
it was basically just to tell us that

315
00:29:03.559 --> 00:29:08.039
they were not pressing charges. We
tried asking questions that we've been wanting answers

316
00:29:08.039 --> 00:29:14.000
to. What are those questions?
If you could ask those questions again,

317
00:29:14.240 --> 00:29:18.160
what are those questions that you want
answers to? We asked why the thoughnoth

318
00:29:18.200 --> 00:29:22.799
And Police Department didn't verify if the
shots were coming from Raymond's house before calling

319
00:29:22.839 --> 00:29:29.680
for backup. We asked if the
US government or tribal governments plan on doing

320
00:29:29.680 --> 00:29:36.160
anything to prevent anything like this from
happening Again, We asked why weren't there

321
00:29:36.400 --> 00:29:41.079
nine to one one calls recorded?
Why did they show us the edited version

322
00:29:41.240 --> 00:29:45.920
of the video? Why did so
many officers go out that night? Why

323
00:29:45.960 --> 00:29:51.000
did they continue to threaten to shoot
him when he was laying on his face

324
00:29:51.079 --> 00:29:56.880
dying. Do you remember anything else? We asked him to confirm the number

325
00:29:57.440 --> 00:30:03.359
of shots fired, and and they
won't tell us. They were basically defending

326
00:30:03.759 --> 00:30:10.279
the border patrol officers already by not
answering any of our questions. So when

327
00:30:10.440 --> 00:30:15.279
was what was the date. It
was May eighteenth, eighteenth twenty three.

328
00:30:15.039 --> 00:30:19.279
During all this time, all this
stuff has transpired, and things are kind

329
00:30:19.279 --> 00:30:23.400
of at a stand still at least
when you're dealing with the Border Patrol TOPD

330
00:30:25.160 --> 00:30:27.119
and what the decision that they've kind
of already made. I guess, you

331
00:30:27.119 --> 00:30:30.279
know, them saying that they're not
going to prosecute, so they're just moving

332
00:30:30.319 --> 00:30:34.960
on from there. But you all
are continuing to share his story. What

333
00:30:36.119 --> 00:30:41.839
other goals did you have in mind
or what kind of justice are you seeking

334
00:30:41.519 --> 00:30:48.160
from this experience. When we met
with the thrownoth And Police Department detectives,

335
00:30:48.720 --> 00:30:53.839
we asked if they are going to
reconsider their relationship or their procedure when calling

336
00:30:53.880 --> 00:30:57.039
Border patrol for backup, and he
said, well, we're short staffed right

337
00:30:57.039 --> 00:31:02.319
now, but I don't underst and
way they can't use like the Sheriff's department

338
00:31:02.400 --> 00:31:07.039
or any other peace officers around the
area instead of calling for Border patrol.

339
00:31:07.079 --> 00:31:11.359
Because Border patrol are not trained the
same as police officers. They're not held

340
00:31:11.400 --> 00:31:15.839
accountable. If you notice police officers
when they shoot someone or kill someone,

341
00:31:15.880 --> 00:31:19.799
their names are immediately released. We
still haven't heard the names of these Border

342
00:31:19.799 --> 00:31:27.359
patrol officers, they get qualified immunity
and de facto complete immunity. They're basically

343
00:31:27.359 --> 00:31:34.079
immune to harassing and even murdering our
people. And I know officials say that

344
00:31:34.279 --> 00:31:38.559
it's because they need to feel comfortable
doing their job, or are they in

345
00:31:38.599 --> 00:31:42.599
the business of murdering people, because
that's basically what they're protecting them from.

346
00:31:44.480 --> 00:31:49.640
We also would like to make people
aware of their rights. Like I said

347
00:31:49.640 --> 00:31:53.240
before, you know, this is
just how we've lived and we always knew

348
00:31:53.279 --> 00:31:57.920
there was a problem with Border Patrol, especially interacting with them, but we

349
00:31:59.000 --> 00:32:02.680
didn't realize how big the problem was
and until it happened to one of our

350
00:32:02.720 --> 00:32:07.079
loved ones. And so we want, you know, people to know their

351
00:32:07.160 --> 00:32:10.279
rights, know that they have a
voice, Know that you know when something's

352
00:32:10.319 --> 00:32:14.519
bothering you, it could be the
smallest thing, you should use your voice

353
00:32:14.519 --> 00:32:17.839
and say something and speak up about
it because it could get worse. And

354
00:32:17.960 --> 00:32:22.279
it is getting worse, and it's
not a matter of if this is going

355
00:32:22.359 --> 00:32:28.359
to happen again, but when.
And we did voice our concerns with some

356
00:32:28.440 --> 00:32:35.160
of the unprofessionalisms that Border Patrol officers
were conducting that night toward our family when

357
00:32:35.240 --> 00:32:38.880
it happened, and we did tell
Lieutenant David Daily, he offered a one

358
00:32:38.920 --> 00:32:44.799
eight hundred number to my family to
complain about it. That's not enough for

359
00:32:44.880 --> 00:32:47.440
us, you know, it's not
enough for to leave a recording about what

360
00:32:47.559 --> 00:32:52.839
happened and then because nothing will get
done. And like you said before,

361
00:32:52.880 --> 00:32:54.480
there needs to be some kind of
help for us, some kind of office,

362
00:32:54.519 --> 00:32:58.559
some kind of place where we can
actually go to talk to people about

363
00:32:58.599 --> 00:33:01.559
it, and we would also get
like to get more statistics as to like

364
00:33:02.160 --> 00:33:08.359
how many times TOPD is using border
patrol for assistance or I feel like that

365
00:33:08.480 --> 00:33:12.319
data is not out there, is
not released, and I feel like if

366
00:33:12.319 --> 00:33:16.480
people were to see that more then
they would realize what a problem it is.

367
00:33:19.799 --> 00:33:22.000
Yeah, I think that that definitely
is something. And I've been you

368
00:33:22.039 --> 00:33:25.200
know, talking about voter issues for
a long time, and it really for

369
00:33:25.240 --> 00:33:30.160
me, it started when I was
in college back in twenty twelve and at

370
00:33:30.160 --> 00:33:35.680
the time, there was a story
that came out and it was about a

371
00:33:35.759 --> 00:33:39.720
grandma who was going through the boat
to patrol and just because of their aggression

372
00:33:39.839 --> 00:33:45.440
and they you know, they want
immediate answers, they want immediate responses to

373
00:33:45.680 --> 00:33:47.480
what they're trying to ask you to
do. And because she was elder,

374
00:33:47.599 --> 00:33:51.680
she couldn't maybe she didn't understand,
or she was moving too slow, and

375
00:33:51.720 --> 00:33:55.119
they got impatient with her and they
cut her out of her seatbelt and they

376
00:33:55.160 --> 00:34:00.119
bruised her. They showed her on
the front page of the Runner with her

377
00:34:00.200 --> 00:34:05.039
bruises, and for us, that's
when we started to really raise awareness.

378
00:34:05.400 --> 00:34:10.199
But I also think that putting pressure
on our leadership as well as a community

379
00:34:10.280 --> 00:34:15.519
as a people to really voice her
concerns, to really show what it is

380
00:34:15.519 --> 00:34:19.880
that we need from them, Which
is that protection, which is that resource,

381
00:34:19.920 --> 00:34:23.239
which is that support, is something
that is really needed as well.

382
00:34:23.519 --> 00:34:29.639
More folks speaking up, more folks
going to their community meetings and addressing these

383
00:34:29.679 --> 00:34:32.920
concerns. And I know throughout the
years they've had town halls where border patrol

384
00:34:34.000 --> 00:34:37.800
is there. But five minutes to
talk on a microphone to share your traumatic

385
00:34:37.840 --> 00:34:42.320
experience is not enough time. And
accountability is at the top right there for

386
00:34:42.440 --> 00:34:45.920
many of us, it's been too
long. It's been a long time coming,

387
00:34:45.400 --> 00:34:52.480
but hopefully something can change. Going
back to Detective Daily, was he

388
00:34:52.639 --> 00:34:57.320
like the detective that was assigned to
this or was he just there that night?

389
00:35:00.159 --> 00:35:02.639
Said that he was there that night. I think maybe he was maybe

390
00:35:02.639 --> 00:35:07.519
the only detective there that night.
And the lack of empathy that he showed,

391
00:35:07.679 --> 00:35:10.119
and the way he gave my family
a one eight hundred number to call

392
00:35:10.360 --> 00:35:15.880
if we have any questions, I
think that's really sad. But yeah,

393
00:35:15.920 --> 00:35:21.320
he was the only detective there that
night, and I think he might be

394
00:35:21.360 --> 00:35:25.239
the only detective on the case.
If you felt maybe you weren't getting enough

395
00:35:25.239 --> 00:35:30.320
information from him, were you trying
to go to other like calling the police

396
00:35:30.360 --> 00:35:36.440
department and talk to someone other than
him, or did you only have to

397
00:35:36.480 --> 00:35:39.480
go directly through him to talk about
the case. I believe he was our

398
00:35:39.519 --> 00:35:45.920
main point of contact ever since then? What has happened now? I know

399
00:35:46.159 --> 00:35:51.719
that you guys recently did some protests
like peaceful protesting. Is that something that

400
00:35:51.760 --> 00:35:57.119
you want to are going planning to
continue to do? Yes, definitely,

401
00:35:57.199 --> 00:36:02.320
We're going to definitely keep doing or
planning peaceful protest just to keep it out

402
00:36:02.360 --> 00:36:07.000
there, keep what we're doing out
there, keep what we're trying to voice

403
00:36:07.039 --> 00:36:10.440
out there, and hopefully bring some
change, because I know my uncle Ray

404
00:36:12.239 --> 00:36:19.119
would keep pushing for this for change. With your uncle Ray prior to that

405
00:36:19.280 --> 00:36:23.719
day that night, what was he
up to during that time. I know

406
00:36:23.880 --> 00:36:30.400
during that time he was working on
getting the ceremonies together and he was teaching

407
00:36:30.599 --> 00:36:34.920
because not a lot of the kids
down there, Well we're running out of

408
00:36:34.920 --> 00:36:39.360
singers down there at the ceremonies.
So he knows the songs, so he

409
00:36:39.519 --> 00:36:45.000
was actually helping teach other people the
songs. That way, our traditions can

410
00:36:45.039 --> 00:36:52.800
be carried on and carried further.
That's what he was doing. Wow.

411
00:36:52.119 --> 00:36:59.440
Unfortunately, you know, another person, traditional knowledge carrier just taken from us

412
00:36:59.599 --> 00:37:05.920
like that is unfortunate to hear when
everything happened that night. When I watched

413
00:37:06.000 --> 00:37:09.960
the video, and again you hear
the conversation of the dispatch, you kind

414
00:37:09.960 --> 00:37:15.559
of see the gathering of them before
they all start making their way that way,

415
00:37:15.599 --> 00:37:21.119
and they are kind of guessing as
they're going through the trees trying to

416
00:37:21.159 --> 00:37:24.239
find something. And I feel like
the first person they found was who they

417
00:37:24.239 --> 00:37:30.239
were going to target it. Unfortunately
it was your uncle Raymond. And in

418
00:37:30.280 --> 00:37:35.719
the video, all he did throughout
that entire situation was cooperate. He didn't

419
00:37:35.840 --> 00:37:38.599
resist, he didn't do anything that
he wasn't told to do. He was

420
00:37:38.639 --> 00:37:44.719
simply doing what he was being commanded
or told to do, and unfortunately that

421
00:37:44.920 --> 00:37:50.320
still wasn't enough for them to feel
like they were in danger. And I

422
00:37:50.960 --> 00:37:53.480
don't understand that neither, because this
is one guy, this one person,

423
00:37:53.519 --> 00:37:59.480
and there was like a bunch of
them surrounding him. Yeah, he threw

424
00:37:59.639 --> 00:38:06.079
any but again it's only because he
was cooperating with them, and unfortunately they

425
00:38:06.119 --> 00:38:10.679
immediately just the aggression that they showed
how they were talking to him, even

426
00:38:12.039 --> 00:38:15.039
when he was shot, when he
was down, when he was bleeding,

427
00:38:15.559 --> 00:38:19.760
when he was fighting for his life, they were still treating him bad and

428
00:38:20.119 --> 00:38:23.239
talking to him in an aggressive,
vulgar way, you know, cursing at

429
00:38:23.280 --> 00:38:29.039
him. This is a person who's
heard, who's been shot. He's not

430
00:38:29.079 --> 00:38:31.920
posing any harm when he's in the
state. But for you to continue that

431
00:38:31.960 --> 00:38:38.480
aggression even when somebody's in that situation, you could just tell that they were

432
00:38:38.599 --> 00:38:44.039
panicking as well when they started to
talk about the gun. Can you talk

433
00:38:44.079 --> 00:38:49.280
about that situation with that, Well, he was unarmed, and they were

434
00:38:49.360 --> 00:38:52.800
panicking because they were saying find the
gun, find the gun, because there

435
00:38:52.880 --> 00:38:55.639
was no gun, and he did
receive a broken arm after he had been

436
00:38:55.679 --> 00:39:00.639
shot over nine times. So I
mean that's how much force they were using.

437
00:39:00.679 --> 00:39:04.000
And trying to turn them over and
find the gun. And yeah,

438
00:39:04.000 --> 00:39:07.000
that wasn't right to shoot an un
non man that many times, and it

439
00:39:07.079 --> 00:39:10.000
was pretty obvious there was no gun. There was a cell phone, yes,

440
00:39:10.039 --> 00:39:15.440
but there was no gun. You
know. I guess two things.

441
00:39:15.840 --> 00:39:20.639
How has your community and like tribal
leadership respond meto this and just like other

442
00:39:20.639 --> 00:39:23.199
events, just because I'm not really
familiar with how it is, especially you

443
00:39:23.199 --> 00:39:27.800
know, with their relationship with the
border control and like just this long history

444
00:39:27.840 --> 00:39:31.239
of them interacting with your guys,
community and your people. So that was

445
00:39:31.280 --> 00:39:37.440
my first question. So well,
we feel like Ned Norris was trying to

446
00:39:37.440 --> 00:39:40.679
be very diplomatic about the whole situation
and not take a side, but we

447
00:39:40.760 --> 00:39:45.000
feel a little more supported by Verlin
Josse. He's, you know, with

448
00:39:45.039 --> 00:39:50.199
his words. He said that you
know, this isn't right. We need

449
00:39:50.239 --> 00:39:52.360
to do something about it. So
we're hoping that he keeps his word and

450
00:39:52.400 --> 00:39:58.840
he's willing to help us and getting
some changes done and talking to legislative in

451
00:39:58.880 --> 00:40:00.960
the future. And he has also
been very supportive about, you know,

452
00:40:01.480 --> 00:40:06.679
us getting our word out and my
uncle Ray's story out, So we do

453
00:40:06.760 --> 00:40:13.760
feel supported in that way. On
the smaller community level, I feel we're

454
00:40:13.760 --> 00:40:19.719
not very supported being on the council
and managers. I feel like no one's

455
00:40:19.760 --> 00:40:23.400
really talking about it. Nobody reached
out to me when the incident happened.

456
00:40:24.000 --> 00:40:30.760
Nobody released their condolences. So I
don't know if people in our community,

457
00:40:30.320 --> 00:40:35.679
I don't know if they're scared to
speak out, are scared to feel for

458
00:40:35.800 --> 00:40:39.480
the situation. Maybe they feel like
if they do speak out that they'll be

459
00:40:39.519 --> 00:40:45.320
targeted because you know, before that
night, I cannot recall one incident where

460
00:40:45.360 --> 00:40:51.119
there was a presence of water patrol
like that, the amount of water patrol,

461
00:40:51.320 --> 00:40:57.039
the excessive force that they showed,
I cannot recall one incident where a

462
00:40:57.119 --> 00:41:02.760
situation happened that way. So yeah, I think maybe it was traumatic and

463
00:41:02.800 --> 00:41:07.639
traumatizing for the whole community because people
are still, you know, they're not

464
00:41:07.719 --> 00:41:13.519
really supportive about it, but they're
talking about it. Elderlies are starting to

465
00:41:13.599 --> 00:41:15.679
come out and say I heard the
shots that night. A lot of the

466
00:41:15.679 --> 00:41:20.440
community members are coming out seeing they
heard the shots that night. I think

467
00:41:20.480 --> 00:41:24.719
for everyone it was kind of traumatizing. I know one elder came out and

468
00:41:24.760 --> 00:41:29.760
said that he heard the shots and
he ran inside because he got scared,

469
00:41:30.159 --> 00:41:36.239
and this man lives maybe half a
mile away from the house from Ray's residents.

470
00:41:36.280 --> 00:41:38.719
So I think the whole community heard
what was going on, and I

471
00:41:38.719 --> 00:41:44.360
think they're afraid to speak out.
Within the community, we haven't really gotten

472
00:41:45.079 --> 00:41:50.360
any support, but on a bigger
scale with the nation and Verlin Jose,

473
00:41:50.920 --> 00:41:54.960
he's been pretty supportive, so I
think we find comfort in that. Thank

474
00:41:55.000 --> 00:42:00.079
you for sharing. I guess my
second question would be for people either in

475
00:42:00.199 --> 00:42:04.920
or outside of your guys's community.
You said that you guys do peopleful protesting.

476
00:42:05.880 --> 00:42:08.760
How would you like people to give
you support and like where would they

477
00:42:08.760 --> 00:42:12.320
be able to go to find more
information about this about you guys, well,

478
00:42:12.599 --> 00:42:16.239
how they can support you guys in
this whole fight, I guess against

479
00:42:16.360 --> 00:42:22.199
the border patrol and how they interact
with your people and what they've done to

480
00:42:22.280 --> 00:42:25.679
your people. We'll definitely keep an
eye on Facebook. If we're going to

481
00:42:25.800 --> 00:42:31.039
do something, we post it on
wherever Native Americans can see it, because

482
00:42:31.039 --> 00:42:36.239
we would like to see more support
on that and I feel like it would

483
00:42:36.559 --> 00:42:39.159
be loud or I feel like it
would be more impactful if more of our

484
00:42:39.599 --> 00:42:44.440
people were standing out there with us. Yeah, we would love to see

485
00:42:44.480 --> 00:42:47.239
that, and like Yvonne said,
we try to go to social media.

486
00:42:49.039 --> 00:42:54.719
We try to join anything that has
to do with victims of border patrol.

487
00:42:55.400 --> 00:43:00.119
I feel like we've made progress and
we've networked with a lot of people so

488
00:43:00.320 --> 00:43:05.360
far, so I feel like what
we've been doing has been working on social

489
00:43:05.400 --> 00:43:09.280
media. We try to put our
phone numbers out and contact information out there.

490
00:43:10.119 --> 00:43:14.880
With everything that we've kind of discussed
and just kind of talked about,

491
00:43:15.320 --> 00:43:22.360
what are your plans for this year
in regards to continuing to raise awareness of

492
00:43:22.400 --> 00:43:27.400
your situation and for justice and in
what ways are you seeking justice? What

493
00:43:27.519 --> 00:43:31.239
kind of justice do you want for
your uncle Raymond. We do have attorneys

494
00:43:31.239 --> 00:43:36.719
that we are working with and they
are working on getting as much information as

495
00:43:36.760 --> 00:43:40.559
they can as far as like the
video and names of officers and everything,

496
00:43:40.599 --> 00:43:45.519
but we know that could take years
because it's going to come all together the

497
00:43:45.559 --> 00:43:51.360
information, So we would like to
try and work on getting information from individual

498
00:43:51.400 --> 00:43:54.920
agencies as we go. Like I
said, we've never been a part of

499
00:43:54.960 --> 00:43:59.559
anything like this before, so we're
fairly new and we don't quite know where

500
00:43:59.559 --> 00:44:02.280
to start all the time. But
we have people like helping us trying to

501
00:44:02.280 --> 00:44:07.920
tell us where to start. So
I think information is huge for us this

502
00:44:07.000 --> 00:44:14.079
year, more peaceful protests, just
to keep everyone aware that we are still

503
00:44:14.239 --> 00:44:17.159
living through this and fighting for this, and we want to make them aware

504
00:44:17.599 --> 00:44:22.519
that there still are Bordertrol victims,
you know, on all sides of the

505
00:44:22.559 --> 00:44:29.039
border, and just to keep his
legacy alive awesome. Would definitely be keeping

506
00:44:29.039 --> 00:44:34.400
a lookout and continuing to share on
our platform, continuing to share his story.

507
00:44:35.199 --> 00:44:37.119
But people just need to be reminded
every now and then, you know

508
00:44:37.280 --> 00:44:43.360
what happened and what's still happening now. But if you have any last thoughts,

509
00:44:44.599 --> 00:44:49.440
anything you would like to say,
yeah, before we end, we

510
00:44:49.480 --> 00:44:52.719
just want accountability. We want someone
to be held accountable, and we're going

511
00:44:52.760 --> 00:44:55.800
to keep his legacy alive and we're
going to keep talking about it and we're

512
00:44:55.840 --> 00:45:04.599
not going to stop. If you
wouldn't like to learn more about upcoming events

513
00:45:04.639 --> 00:45:07.840
and stay up to date, you
can check out the Facebook page Justice for

514
00:45:08.000 --> 00:45:29.639
Raymond Matia at Justice dot FM dot
Raymond dot Matia